Do animals have lucid dreams?

Yes, that is indeed the question. Do they remember their dreams at all?

No. Since animals arent that great at distincting a dream from reality, mother nature has assured that no harm will be done by dreams by making them not able to remember their dreams.

where did you hear that?

Since people can’t really ask the animals whether or not they remember their dreams, I don’t see how they’d know that they don’t. That is a good theory, though.

wow. Animals definitely dream, I think alot of us have established that.

If you connect the dreams to natural instinct, then who knows? We have no explanation for instinct, where it comes from or how it gets into us-If we didn’t hear it from someone, (at least in my own experience) it has come in dreams.

Would thats count as a lucid dream though? to realize that “hey I had a dream about this, I’ve never done it, I should go try.”

Just a thought…

i think animals do have lucid dreams. for example i have a cat, Casper (he is all white). now Casper is a heavy sleeper as i think all cats are. i would average his sleep time to about 18 hours a day. now think about that and how many rem cycles he can go through. so obviously he dreams a lot. and this happens everyday so im bound to think hes been lucid quite a few times lol. :grin:

I do believe they dream, But I don’t think they have Lucid dreams. I also don’t think they remember their dreams.
Example:
What if your pet has a nightmare you were hitting it or doing something horrible to it like that? If it remembered it, wouldn’t it be somewhat afraid of you for a time? Has this ever happened to anyone? Their pet goes to sleep very happy with you and wakes up running in fear of you? It’s never happened to me. This leads me to think they have dreams, but don’t remember them when they wake up. So even if they could Lucid dream, I don’t think they would remember the experience. :neutral:

Maybe they remember they’re dreams and nightmares but are aware that they are not real? Or maybe they dream different than we do and don’t have nightmare. No, they DO have nightmares, that much I think I know :tongue:.
I, myself, have always gotten along with my pets. Except for the time my cat tried to kill me when I was little :content:.

The one thing that is clear to me is that animals, opposed to humans don’t fight to get lucid. I believe they are either never lucid or they are every time they go to sleep.
I’d have to say that I personally believe that at least some animals are.
Humans (the vast vast majority) are constantly focusing on the future and the past. Analyzing, thinking and planning. Animals never do that. Animals act solely in the moment. If humans were only focused on the moment, I believe they will always be lucid as there are major differences between the astral reality and the physical one.
Only because they focus on different time areas and thoughts, they tend to lose focus on the surroundings at a given moment. We are in dreams who we are in real life. And so, also in dreams, we think about what’s gonna happen then and there and about consequences and we forget to live the moment. If someone inside a dream will be focused only on the present moment, he will most surely notice the differences in the surroundings. That is why when you live the present moment in your waking life, your lucidity becomes much more natural. Because you simply allow yourself to live the quantum reality you are experiencing at that very moment.

And about Winter Depths comment
I doubt your cat will dream you are attacking it or something like that because that would mean that subconsciously he thinks you’re bad. And if that was the case, he probably wasn’t at your house right now.

Cheers

edit:
By the way, Bruno, where did you get that? thats amazing!

Animals do dream, yeah, but because they don’t have language they don’t know the difference between dreaming and real life, just like small children. Children, on the other hand, have parents to teach them the difference through language.

Because animals can’t distinguish the two realities, it’s biologically favourable not to remember them.

“Imagine your favorite cat living on the other side of a tall fence that protects it from a vicious dog. Suppose your cat were to dream that the wicked dog was dead, and replaced by a family of mice. What would happen if the cat were to remember this dream when it awoke? Not knowing it was a dream, it would probably hungrily jump over the fence, expecting to find a meal. But instead, it would find itself a meal–for the dog!” - Lucidity Institute

that’s probably why it’s so hard to remember your dreams, it’s not dangerous to do however, because you DO know the difference between dreaming and being awake.

So: they do dream, but probably don’t remember them. And because they don’t know what dreaming is, how are they supposed to know when they are dreaming?

I’ve got to be honest, I disagree with this point. Not having language doesn’t mean they are incapable of determining what the difference between dreaming and real life is, it simply means they would lack the capacity to express it if they did. I’m not claiming that animals can determine what a dream is, just that this cited evidence, doesn’t fully support your point. Sure we may have been taught by our parents what a dream is, but then who taught them, then who taught them… eventually you get to a point where somebody had to realise for themselves, without being taught.

I have to agree with this, it makes logical sense not to cross over real life and dream life. It’s an inconvenience to us to think, oh I put my keys here… then to realise that was in fact a dream. It could be fatal to an animal in the wild.

Good point, thanks for the reply :smile: I just think that humans, if they weren’t taught about realities by their parents, eventually would figure out the difference anyway, and language helps them with it, by talking about it with other humans for example.

Maybe animals figure it out too, who knows. I just think that without talking about it and setting boundaries in wich reality is wich by language, it’s much harder, especially for non-humans.

I hope you see my point :wink:

No, you must be self-aware to know something about yourself (I.E. “I’m dreaming”). Animals, exempt maybe a few exceptions, are not self-aware and therefore cannot lucid dream. Also, it requires a degree of understanding what a “dream” is, and an aanimal would not be able to differentiate it from reality.

The vast majority of humans never realize they’re dreaming when they’re dreaming, either. I think most, if not all humans know the difference between dreaming and reality, but can they all tell the difference when they’re IN the dream? Not many people can.
Since lucid dreaming involves being conscious while in a dream, I assume any creature is able to be conscious while they’re dreaming. But we have no idea if, even if conscious, an animal could think that they’re dreaming. If they know what a dream is (Or even remember dreaming at all) I believe they are capable of becoming lucid.

My dog once was sleeping in the living room and we were watching TV. First we saw her legs twitching while she was sleeping, then she started to growl at something. After that she woke up and started barking, looked around confused for a few seconds and went back to sleep.

I’m pretty sure she realized that she had awoken from a dream, if animals couldn’t realize this then they could act on information from a dream and hurt themselves.

Being able to notice a dream while they are dreaming is different, but they definitely can understand what a dream is once they are awake.

I think that’s fairly good evidence that they remember their dreams and know what they are. Or your dog would have continued barking.

as far as i can tell(which isn’t far), animals aren’t aware, concious, lucid, whatever, when they’re awake, so i don’t think they are in the dream state. but who knows?

i swear, though, SOMETIMES MY CAT LOOKS LIKE HE’S MEDITATING. he is a wise kitty. :smile:

Here’s a thought. It seems that much being an aware and conscious being depends on one thing. Language. That’s not to say animals are completely unaware, because, although animals do not understand language to the extent that we do, they can still communicate on some level. So kind of along the lines of what todzak said, I don’t think animals can lucid dream, because they aren’t very aware while awake.

The vast majority of humans never realize they’re dreaming when they’re dreaming, either. I think most, if not all humans know the difference between dreaming and reality, but can they all tell the difference when they’re IN the dream? Not many people can.
Since lucid dreaming involves being conscious while in a dream, I assume any creature is able to be conscious while they’re dreaming. But we have no idea if, even if conscious, an animal could think that they’re dreaming. If they know what a dream is (Or even remember dreaming at all) I believe they are capable of becoming lucid.
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The point I am making is that there is a fundamental difference in the way that Humans think, and the way that almost all other animals think: Humans are self-aware. They can look into a mirror and think “that is me”.

And while people, in dreams, are usually unaware that they are dreaming, it remains that we are self-aware, even in our dreams. In our dream-narrative, we recognize ourselves, and so it is not an inconcievable epiphany when the dreamer thinks to himself “I am currently witnessing imagery completely invented by my own mind. My physical body is at rest somewhere.”, because he already recognizes himself, and so the stage is set for making discoveries about the state of himself.

Animals on the other hand (animals other than Humans), do not have brains wired to be self-aware. They witness the outside world and react to stimuli provided by it, but do not think of themselves. Therefore, when the external stimuli is that of a dream, they could not produce the theory that they are dreaming, because they don’t even know the existence of themselves, in a sense.

This is, of course, speaking VERY theoretically. If we look at the matter practically than we can conclude that animals can not lucidly dream because they are not intelligent enough to do so.

I can’t say I have evidence to prove animals can lucid dream, but I disagree with some of the assertions you make. Particularly that animals have brains not wired up to be self-aware. I have to agree many animals (as far as we can tell) are not self-aware; however some animals show evidence of self-awareness. Experiments such as the Mirror Test have found evidence that “great apes (bonobos, chimpanzees, orangutans, gorillas), bottlenose dolphins, Orcas, elephants, and European Magpies” show evidence of self-awareness. They mightn’t be in the same sense that we are, but with evidence such as this, asserting that animals are essentially not capable of self-awareness is flawed.

The mirror test demonstrated that the animal was not only capable of realising that the reflected image was of itself, but that it recognised the coloured spot on itself was abnormal. Why else would it spend time observing it, or trying to “poke it with a limb.” It is a large leap to make the realisation that the entire reality that you are engaged in is a dream, but not an impossible one. It would require the animal dreams (which there is evidence for) That they understand what a dream is, (which there is no evidence for either way) and an ability to recognise itself and awareness of it’s state. (Which there is evidence for in some respect.) Therefore the argument that they are not-intelligent enough, is not fully founded, we simply have not got enough data to say conclusively.