LD & Christianity

Well in the bible it’s forbidden to reach for the ‘beyond’, this would fall under many things including trying to contact ‘the dead’ or any kind of ‘spirit’… by this Lucid Dreaming (in some ways) could be used to do this (according to some peoples beliefs) which is probably all going to come down to personal choice… in the end if you are a christian and practicing LD’s then i’d suggest you pray and speak to any kind of advisers you might have or seek this out in the bible… it appears Cherriey has done something like this but I won’t agree with her thoughts on ‘the spirit world’… if isn’t heaven you’re refering to it’d be limbo or hell…

As long as you don’t believe you actually can contact the spirit world in your dreams and think dreams are just constructs of your mind, well, then there’s no way you can do anything wrong. Even if you have a long conversation with your long-dead grandmother in an LD it’s still just in your head and you haven’t actually contacted anyone!

Even though your God can be a bit picky sometimes I don’t think he’ll punish you for the semi-deranged random flashes of thought that goes on in your head at night.

A few nights ago I got lucid and conjured up my dead grandfather. He died in 2001 from a heart attack while sleeping. I never got to say goodbye to him. He meant the world to me before he died, and still does. When I saw him standing right infront of me, I was overcome with emotion. I hugged him for the first time in 5 years and just started crying. He just kept saying “I’m ok… I’m ok”. When I woke up I had tears on my face, but I was happy. I had found closure, even if it wasnt really him, it felt just as real as the last day I saw him.

Communing with the dead or not - what gives any religion the right to deny someone the joy I felt that day?

I don’t see how God could condem LD’s, there is no reference in the bible that condems them and they occur naturally in people lives (infrequently). That would be similar to saying we have sinned for something like a reflexive flinch or blinking.

My question is whether or not doing evil things in LD’s are wrong.

No more wrong than having the same thoughts in a day dream in real life.

Thankfully we live in a world that doesnt police thought patterns just yet. Only actions, speech and written word.

It’d be wrong sinning in a dream conciously although it probably would matter how aware you are at the same time, and if you were in control of your actions/thoughts.

Slight edit. :bruno:

lucid dreaming can be a form of witchcraft, but i dont think like anyone would use it that way, flying is just too much fun :smile:

Think of lucid dreams like little knives: you can use them to cut the food you eat, and that’s completely normal, or pierce the earth with them while chanting, which is a slightly more satanic thing to do. They exist. I used to have them even before learning what they were in the first place. The nice thing about them is that, albeit they’re dreams, you have your waking life’s free will to do as you choose. So just do as in waking life: use your free will wisely, because you will be responsible for what you choose do. :smile:

is an Atheist trying to reason like a Christian

Use it witchcraft what way? I believe there is a wide misconception that witches participate in anything “evil” I’m personally not a student of witchcraft but I’ve studied it and If you actually learn about witchcraft you’ll find that it is about praising nature and the way god works through nature. Of course there are a small minority of people that worship demons/the devil but most witches or people that study witchcraft actually have no interest in demon worship.

I was a fundamentalist christian for 15 years and I remember the passage in the bible that talks about the evils of witches. But when you translate it back into original Hebrew it actually has nothing to to with the witchcraft nowadays. Kind of sad all these people judge others ignorantly from that one passage.

Lucid Dreams cannot be “evil” and “prohibited” by God. Because some people naturally lucid dream. Can’t blame them for sinning. :shrug: If God didn’t want us to lucid dream, then there would be no naturals.

edit:

That’s actually Wicca you’re talking about. And some of them do not like the word “Witchcraft”.

I do understand not everyone reading this is a christian but for those that are it’s safe to say, God does not want us to practice any form of magic including reaching for the ‘beyond’ or even searching for such a place… I’m fairly comfortable with Lucid Dreaming now since there was so much feedback from you guys so thanks…

Now for me ~ it’s off to bed! (lmao if I have a proper LD for once)

Good luck with your LD! Oh, and did you know that there are magic rituals that are exactly the same as praying. Some people that practice magick call it meditation or a ritual, but it’s the exact same thing a christian calls praying. So just remember when you pray next time that you’re doing magick.

I think if you belive having LD’s is being evil then dont have them. Most people have their own ideas about it and its good to share your ideas so you can add to what you belive. I personally probably have a whole different outlook on life then most people here. I was grown up as being a catholic but its really not something i truley belive. Maybe Jesus was real and had specail abilities to heal the sick and what not but really…what are the chances that every religon is correct…they all cant be. And maybe people just have religons to feel not alone and that they can look forward to something after this life.

Slight edit. :bruno:

Sinjun is quite correct actually.

Tell me, what do prayer, meditation and silent ritual all have in common? Stillness of the body and one-pointedness of the mind, or the focusing of a single thought to bring about a resolution. Sound familiar? It’s also pretty much the technique for WILD and MILD.

Just because you say Ahmen at the end of a prayer doesnt change the fact that in essence it is a religiously veiled meditiation.

Ever heard stories of someone praying for a resolution all day in church, then going home and going to sleep, then having a dream where God gave them the answer? This is simply mental saturation of a problem, followed by time to allow your subconscious to mull it over, then it delivers the answer to you through the only medium it can - your dreams. This is a process called dream incubation, which was used in Egyptian dream temples thousands of years before christ.

But i think ive really gone off on a tangent here.

Just a question though: Look at someone like John Edwards. He’s been able to see and talk to the dead since he was 5 years old (if he is infact, the real deal). He didnt have training to accomplish this, it came naturally. Why would your God create someone with a gift to talk to the dead (“reach for the beyond”) when he can’t turn it off or control it? Seems like he’s setting him up for failure wouldnt you say?

Im a christian, and find there’s nothing wrong with LD’ing. In the bible there are many refrences to dreaming, this question really brought me to think how I could justify this answer… I’m really bad at stating what I beleive in so I will keep it to myself… for good reasons.

I’m a christian, and I find nothing wrong with LDing, meditation, or a lot of the ideas of Buddism. In fact, most of the spiritual advancement methods can help you with your Christian faith. It’s not witchcraft at all, the Bible is vague on purpose as to what is evil or not. In the bible, God put everything on Earth for a reason, and they all have a proper use.

Another cool thing about the bible, if you read the first few chapters of Daniel in the Old Testament it is about Daniel interpreting the king’s dream and he even goes into detail about it the dream symbols and what they mean- which turns out to be correct! He then thanks god for his “gift” of interpreting dreams because it saved his life.

note: This is the same Daniel that is later cast into the lion’s den and saved from harm.

So the chrsitian bible even has a case of God working through dreams. There ya go. :smile:

NullAshton, I think you would like the book A Seven Day Journey With Thomas Merton. He is a devout christian who studies and applies buddhism into christianity. He even goes to live with some monks for a bit. A very enlightening book. :om:

I’m going to offer some further perspective, since Alextanium made a good point about prayer - I’d say to any Christian who has serious doubts about LDing to think about the similarities between prayer and some of the LD induction techniques, like MILD or WILD. There are lots of things in common between the them, including focus, intention, the fact you are trying to accomplish a goal (speak with God vs. have an LD). If you think in these terms, coupled with the fact that you are the one doing the dreaming and you can therefore choose not to do anything sinful, then Lucid Dreaming should be perfectly alright :smile:

As far as LD relating to anything occult, no worries there.
Think about what someone already mentioned about the Bible’s translation - the English version we use today are often very different from the origional Hebrew versions, which had been passed down hundreds of years through word of mouth before actually being put to paper. This means that there is a lot in the Bible open to interpretation, so again, it’s really up to the individual to determine what they feel comfortable with doing and what they don’t.

Also a quick point about John Edward - while I agree with your general point Alextanium (if talking to the dead were possible there’d be nothing wrong about it…it might even be beneficial), John Edward may not be the best example. There is no evidence whatsover that he is doing anything other than cold reading - a technique that I as an amateur magician can do easily. I agree that lucid dreams in which we ‘communicate’ with lost loved ones are certainly beneficial for closure, and whether we’re genuinely communicating with real people or not doesn’t really matter in that aspect, but I think that this should be kept as a personal experience…‘psychics’ like John Edward should be left out of the whole situation, in my humble, skeptical opinion :smile:

Well people often call me ignorant… but I know you mean well in the end so I don’t mind you saying your opinion.

I really just wanted my question to be answered, and it has been (as moogle stated above)… although for sake of discussion you guys could continue the thread just don’t make any snide remarks toward me because I don’t appreciate them and they aren’t very constructive, now are they?