I decided to leave dream views after being there for 6 years. I started a simple topic on if dream characters think. I basically got called stupid and no one answered my questions seriously. anyone else have a similar experience?
I’m utterly surprised that you got called stupid over such a question, and after six years, even. Personally, I feel that dream characters might think, such as in the back of your subconscious or–considering the spiritual views some people hold here–elsewhere. I wouldn’t believe it if it happened here on LD4All; we’re a closely-knit community.
It is quite common for creative writers, that their characters almost take on their own life and start acting out the scenes in the author’s head without conscious effort. It has happened to me while roleplaying. I believe that dream characters are part of the same mind as our conscious point of view, but that doesn’t have to mean that they can’t think.
I don’t have much experience with the forum you mention and can’t speak for them, but that kind of behaviour is unheard of here. welcome to ld4all!
I basically quoted Rene Descartes when he said " i think therefore i am" and asked if dream characters think do they exist? if you don’t believe they think, tell me why with proof, if you do tell me why with proof
i thought it was a pretty good convo starter. but guess not. lol. Thanks for the warm welcome:)
Weird: apart from Waggoner, the most insight I received over levels of DC’s some from a DV member, specifically Mike on Loaf’s blog. But yeah, I know how you feel, that’s one of the reasons I joined LD4all instead of DV myself. It’s a hella lot more friendly and warm in here
I still have little personal experience on the subject, but it’s safe to assume most DC’s are there just to meet our expectation of company, and for the overall fact we’re social animals. There might sure be a restricted few that don’t fill the mindless, “fake” description, and in fact I’ve been trying for some time to meet such characters
Oh, you won’t here that on this forum.Welcome
Personally, I think that dream characters don’t have a mind of their own.They are created inside your own mind and your mind is what controls them.
So, the answer would be: partially.
They can think, but only with your mind…what your mind makes up for them.
I wouldn’t be that quick to judge DV. Mind you, I went lengths to have my account removed from their database, because not only did I abandon it, I didn’t want to get the monthly “Bruno! We miss you!” message in my email inbox. But I cannot say I left it out of resentment.
There’s a different culture there, true, one that tolerates a lot more trolling than here. But not every forum needs to feel like family: they’re very competent, and whenever I need to research into rarer experiences and techniques, I don’t hesitate relying on their vast base of members and their huge database. It’s the internet: you’ve got to learn how to filter, and there’s no point holding grudges.
That attitude from certain members is regrettable. It’s even more regrettable that some moderators there themselves embrace it. But overall I think it’s a very interesting community producing a lot in terms of ideas, techniques and cultural items that make the lucid dreaming comunity at large more tightly knit. My advice is: leave it if you must, as I left it myself, but try not to resent it. There are many great people there.
No i still plan on using it to research things and for solutions to problems. don’t worry about that. I just won’t post in my dream journal there. i forget if this site has one lol. I’ll make one here. and i won’t contribute to anything at all there.
Yup. There’s plenty of room for dream journals around these parts.
Anyway, if you want to talk about dream characters, I can recall seeing plenty of topics related to the subject.
Sorry to hear about your experience with Dreamviews. I plan to start posting there eventually. I hope things go a bit better than they did for you!
How exactly would somebody prove this?
I found this site, when I discovered that Dreamviews is gone.
We just checked, and the host site reads that there is no Dreamviews.
And I feel, if it is not just a temporary fluke, or down for repairs, that it is energetic return.
I have been to pretty much all the dream sites out there, and by far, Dreamviews has the most corrupt moderation of any site.
A few other sites, have some level of social favoritism, by a single owner or of few owner/moderators.
But Dreamviews has it down to a demeaning science, carried out by a team of moderators.
It may appear that they tolerate trolling more than other sites, but that is because the people that are insulting others and getting away with it, are basically within the wagon circle.
If you haven’t made friends with the atleast some of the many Mods after you join, and someone labels you a troll, or you say anything they don’t like, even non-insulting, they have a variety of ways to make your stay there, frustrating, degrading, and if it leads to a banning, then the humiliation doesn’t end there.
It is a competitive site. They see other dream forums as competition. It is a business.
It has been sold and bought, at auction several times, the last, apparently for $17,600
It may not be accurate to assume their moderation is based on legitimate instances of someone being a troll, or causing disruption.
Although I personally feel the idea of trolling is a misnomer, created to censor people with impunity, I mentioned on dreamviews what I observed, on how members abuse the use of labeling people trolls, that they didn’t like, to basically have them tagged for the process of eventually getting them banned.
A member vehemently, angrily disagreed with me, and by the end of the week, he was promoted to moderator.
Some of the tactics they use, are isolating a member in what amounts to a confinement forum, where they can only post there to the Mods, in which you would be subject to a kind Quantanamo bay like psyops, by multiple MODs, which is to convince you that you actually did do something wrong, by having a diverging viewpoint. They play the gamut of variable attitudes.
Most people are socially conditioned to accept and conform to such tactics.
Those that don’t are banned. End the social hazing doesn’t end there.
When you come back to find yourself in a limbo site, saying you are banned, and click on this link to find out why, you can then find out by way of insults and expletives, which don’t explain anything.
Better yet, they don’t assign the comments to any Moderator, but to a member that no longer posts there.
That is only a brief description of what I have been able to witness there.
I take a harder line for the people that stay there. Either they are directly involved in it, or just don’t care, or are conditioned to go along with it.
Welcome to LD4all Barodollyo. I just checked and DV appears to be back again but missing about a week of posts.
Because you are starting a topic asking for something that can’t be provided with any proof right now if ever, we don’t know near enough about thinking thought and consciousness. Bottom line that it causes arguments, peoples beliefs clash… you asked the question so its all on you how you gona take there answers.
We know the same rules don’t apply in dreams as in consious everyday reality so why would dream characters be the exception to the rule.
This is a little off-topic concerning DreamViews.
I signed up either there, here or another place when Googling around. I found someone that needed help, I signed up, and I helped them out. Lost track there since my computer died. Trying to retrace my steps when I found this thread. My apologies if I happened to dredge up some ancient post.
I started a thread asking a question about how come many teacher in the spiritual traditions seem to subscribe to the theory of evolution in their material. I was attacked, insulted, and for the most part treated as if I was a complete moron. Then the thread was deleted.
I also started a sort of DreamViews hookup thread, and a female moderator there decided, as near as I can tell, that she didn’t like me. Probably due to a still earlier thread I started offering myself for a hookup for Valentine’s day that in the end gave everyone some good laughs. She insulted me, called me desperate among other things, talked like no female I have ever met (or would ever want to meet) and she moved my thread to Senseless Banter, in essence killing it without deleting it.
I was angry and I considered reporting her. Then I discovered in the Friends list of both Administrators that she is listed, and debated for a bit what to do. I reported her post, she really had no right no move my thread and I did not break any rules. Ultimately I decided to let it go. It’s this whole, “No Attachment, No Aversion” thing I’m doing, compounded with trying to be real me, what non-dualistic teachers write about - I’m trying to get to that point.
Anyhow up to that point I was happy with DreamViews. I helped folks out, found some really good, insightful instructions and even made a few friends. But moderators should not act like that, so I can believe that there are things going on there which shouldn’t be.
Back on subject…
The worst book I ever read, “Soul Flight”, taught the reader that basically it’s all in your mind. You don’t go anywhere when you astral project, DCs are all you, etc. I thoroughly disagree. I am sure that some DCs at least are you. If you created them as aspects of yourself, then you probably also created minds for them to think with. I am even open to being proven wrong, that it is all in your head. But I would still believe that DCs could think. My current belief, subject to change as needed, based on limited experienced and the reading I have done so far, is that in dreaming you encounter aspects of yourself, other dreamers, and possibly even travellers outside physical waking realty, maybe even alien, as in not of earth, in origin, with a waking physical life elsewhere. In such a mix of possibilities the characters, objects and even environments you interact with may have some level of intelligence. Carlos Casteneda talks about “Inorganic Beings” and I have read about “Elementals.” Both are sentient entities you can encounter in your dreams, I have encountered one or the other of them myself, and they have the ability to think.
So those are my thoughts, that DC characters can think, reason, act for themselves, have freewill, etc. They may also be under the control of the dreamer, whether by choice or as an aspect of the dream in the capacity of some sort of role to play, the veritable, not literal angel on one shoulder and demon on the other. The dreamer speaking and acting with themselves for some purpose.
In the end go with whatever feels right to you. Keep an open mind to other possibilities. Never settle for one belief, one reality, to the exclusion of all others.
DreamViews is down again -
Dreamviews moderators are corrupt and arrogant, the most ethically bankrupt moderation team I’ve seen ever.
I was invited to join the staff board and left because I was treated as disposable and unimportant and expected to work and develop content 24/7 for nothing.
Started to get censored by staff there for posting my opinions on major changes that I didn’t like. Wrote a few blog articles and ran a few polls to create a compelling case against certain changes, and instead was told not to advertise my blog and that I was troublemaking. If I tried to argue they’d give me infractions and disable my ability to post temporarily.
After a year of slowly getting into arguments with staff, a drunken administrator (just to clarify he was claiming to be drunk) eventually decided to have me banned. I was labelled as a troll for having an opinion and they made up a bunch of nonsense to feed people I knew at the community to make me look bad. They are in denial and think they do no wrong, its sad because it really taints what would otherwise be a good website.
The current administrator knows nothing about lucid dreaming and only runs the website for ad revenue. Apparently he doesn’t even check the site over weekly since it took him ages to figure out a massive security breach that has brought the community to its knees.
Dreamviews has some great resources, but almost all of the decent content is user created. Its run by idiots who create voids of secrecy and a forum culture that is cold and manufactured. Ignore the facade of a welcoming community; anybody who thinks DV is perfect hasn’t looked beyond their nose.
Should you join DV? I don’t recommend it. There are many alternative forums that are older, richer in content, have better communities, but best of all provide decent service and security.
TELL ME WHAT THOSE FORUMS ARE! NOW!!!
But anyways, looks like some russians killed the site now.
you are on one of them
I think we have “be nice” policy here. I don’t say to you that you cannot state your opinion, far from that.I, personally, am just asking you to choose your words when doing so, nobody likes aggression or similar things, and I think that you can, instead of feeling bad about DV, use the time here for your goals and not waste it on talking against something. It’s not doing any good to you, Use that energy for other purposes.
I don’t personally have experience with DV and cannot judge the mods there. All said is only my opinion and don’t feel like you’ve done somethin bad I just think you’r not doing any good to yourself with that approach.
Welcome to LD4all Loaf, Object, and all other DV-ers that unintentionally missed.
MortalMist has a rich community with user focus. I believe LD4All is older than DV is by a few years. A simple Google also reveals many hidden places with casual atmospheres like Lucidity Lounge, World of Lucid Dreaming, iAmLucidDreaming forums.
I even started my own website based on my own ideals of what a lucid community should be like a couple months back called DreamerBase.
Either way I feel that Dreamviews has pretty hollow up front content, and is just lucky it had SEO smart owners and got in early (I believe it was owned by a web company at one stage?). Is it the best lucid community out there? No, its just big.
@Spider: I didn’t intend hostility, I’m sorry if it seemed aggressive. I’ll try to make sure what I write is a little more mellow in the future.
By the way, since DV is on sale, why don’t you buy it and reshape it into your ideal?
By doing so you will also effectively piss off Alex (the CEO).
Also, I heard about you in the Meta Forum.
It is quite true that you said your images are ruined.
Its for sale?
Well the GoDaddy domain is a fake (it redirects to dream-views, not the valuable domain dreamviews).
Way out of my price range. Alex snapped it up for under $20000 in an auction I believe. Its worth twice that now (or was).
EDIT: Yep, he got it for $17,000.