Thai Boxer and Tomas, great points. I thoroughly agreed with your post, Tomas. It’s about time people got over race and attempted to treat everybody fairly. There’s not much point in harboring ill feelings for past wrongdoings. It’s time to move on.
btw i am no white supremisist
here’s what i propose
Race should be taken out of EVERYTHIG, including SAT (its a standard eyes test in America). They ask you for your race and that is just stupid. Everybody has the same advantages now that we have public schools and state scholarships. Nobody can whine about not being able to get a job because of race. I also believe race SHOULD NEVER be a factor when getting a job. The best qualified person will do best for the company. Period.
MorMor, why do you hate america?
…i see this getting heated
If lucidity teaches us anything, it teaches that it is possible to see beyond the everyday notion of things. Take this topic, for instance.
Some people identify themselves as being a part of a group, largely based on ethnicity, that has been historically oppressed. What does lucidity teach you? How about the limited beliefs that you hold onto when you identify as being someone oppressed. Being of mixed ethnicity, I could choose any one of several groups to identify with, but then I am voluntarily placing myself in a box, something that is fundamentally not real. This is the teaching of lucidity about race and ethnicity; those concepts are largely constructions and to invest energy in them is to live under their limiting yoke. When a black person calls another person the ‘n’ word, some say they are appropriating the language of the oppressor and turning it around to empower themselves, but in truth, they are adopting the social constructions of a slave culture that no longer exists. Those who want to move forward and gain consciousness must realize their uniqueness and not be so quick to place themselves in some arbitrary camp that is the product of the place in which they have been raised. A person of conscience will explore the broader range of cultures and be able to place this one in context, and in doing so they will be above the fray and impervious to the trap.
Lucidity teaches that it is all about consciousness.
Look at the different personas you can put on and take off in a lucid dream. Now which one is you? Isn’t the real question what are you behind all those different masks? You’re not a black woman or asian-american man: you are a spark of consciousness in a sea of archetypal energies in which you swim and attempt to form meaningful relationships with.
The dichotemies of American society are arbitrary and the result of historical processes of the nation. They are as absurd as the dichotemies of any other country, and you can be sure that every single country on this planet has absurd ways to group and categorize people.
There’s no reason to denigrate American or Western European culture or society: name any culture and I’ll be able to tell you about personalities that were as vicious and rapacious as anything in our history. No, all societies contain plenty of dirty laundry. Fortunately, we are pretty good about airing out our bad history, and I think that’s pretty damn healthy.
Affirmative Action is neither good nor bad: it merely continues the tradition of placing people into boxes. It helps some people and gives other people a legitimate reason to be upset. It will never solve any problem. What is required is a cultural and conceptual solution: a solution of consciousness, but that’s very difficult.
Ultimately, the only solution will be after the current society undergoes a radical transformation, which is usually only brought about through intense suffering, not to mention a complete dissolution and rebuilding of a new political structure in North America. Political entities come and go, and that goes for the United States, too… and that’s not a bad thing! Thomas Jefferson said as much!!! But the political component has to be only in the context of a revolution in our consciousness - that’s where the real change happens, and it usually only gets there after great suffering because we’re all too invested in the status quo.
Well, food for thought.
Most people in modern society think that they’re victims; victims of the system, victims of the man, victims of discrimination, victims of society. All I can say is that I’m getting pretty sick of it. I say that if you have never been a slave, then you don’t have anything to bitch about. There are people in the world at this moment who can barely get food in their stomach or find shelter, and then there are the people who dress in designer swag and have the life of luxury and piss and moan about how their ancestors had it rough… Bottom line: people need to grow up and quit trying to play the race card, it’s just ignorant (and we all know ignorance just breeds more ignorance).
As far as affirmative action goes, I think it just singles out certain members of society by giving them special priviledges over other(possibly more qualified) people. It's like painting a big handicapped sign on their back or something..Just plain stupid. :neutral:
- I did a presentation. I wish I remembered the case name, but he was more qualified than some minorities in the running, but he didn’t get in to a medical (?) college. The one side argued that because the case was years ago (back when discrimination was still a big issue), affirmative action was necessary, or minorities wouldn’t have motivation. The other side argued the obvious. It seemed justified back then, but seems unjustified right now, in my opinion.
Actually you can’t. Since you already believe that the legal system is illogical (I don’t need to convince you) this is really going to blow your mind.
As a white male you would have no standing to sue an employer, administrator etc. because said employer, university or whatever gave preference to a minority over a white male. The discrimination laws only apply to specific (what the law calls “protected”) groups which includes anyone other than a white males (nearly any ethnic group), women, people with disabilities or sexual orientation (except transgendered individuals, and people who are straight).
While none of this sounds fair, the reasoning behind it all is that there is no evidence to suggest that white males have been discriminated against and thus they do not need special protections from the legal system. On the other hand, there is a great deal of evidence to show that historically: women, minorities, people with disabilities etc. have been discriminated against and on a large scale.
Hopefully there will come a day where we all just see each other as people (not groups) and treat each other with respect.
Anyway, look on the bright side you could always allege that you were discriminated against because you are gay (weather you actually are or not) or claim that the interviewer made advances to you and file a sexual harassment suit. Other than that, you are out of luck and as far as the federal law reads, out of court as well.
This is a theme with so much feelings that its ahrd to discuss.
For not to speak off anti-semittism and Israel
Is it soemthing I HATE is it people using racism and such as shelter. Those should IMO loose that protection. Their own fault.
And I had to laugh when you american guys talked about Sueing xD
SUE YOU TOO ! xD
understandingprejudice.org/r … affirm.htm
Here is some info on affirmitive action that may change some people minds. I am one of the few black people on these boads so I want to put my imput into this conversation. I think that we should all judge people on their character, morals, and integrity rather than on their skin or on what their anscestors did in the past. But in the same light I feel that the N word (which hold a very “special” place among words) if said by a “white” person is more offensive (than if a black said it) in that the last time that group of people openly used the word it was meant to be offensive and hurtful. Now I dont know if it still is I mean iIsee alot of blacks using it today (I personally dont because its a word born of hatred and cruelty) but that doesnt make it right. Your second point I think has already been covered. We have those months so you can have the rest of the year. And your third point I think is handled by that link.
well why do i hate america…
lets say its mostly about religion(Im an active atheist), forregin policy and indeed racism.
But lets not make this a flaming thread. i can se that you intentions with this thread was good.
but hey not everyone loves sweden either
link removed … I am sure you can use your imagination now this is seriously wicked… they are totaly serious.
everyone is rasict in one way or another , it’s not as if whites have been the worst subject of rasism in history you know , you could just hit the N word and neutrlize it after a small lil bloodbath or walk away
yea, MorMor, i too am an atheist and i HATE how big of a role religion plays in the states. Dont get me wrong, im not one of those people whining about having the word “god” printed on our money, but i do think it is kind of stupid.
…i thought you would have hated america mostly because of our recent years’ actions.
…i’m gonna go start a thread about this. It’ll be called “Why you hate america, and why you’re wrong”
hehe…we’ll see how it goes.
The moderators are REALLY strict here too, so we better keep it flameless
I do not hate the american people, but i do indeed hate their political system and like you said their foreign policy.
But then again, there is plenty of shit i hate my own government for as well. I also hate what Israel is doing this days, but again that dosent mean i hate jews.
you see, tomas, what you say doesnt bother me because you also dislike other countries, including your own. I have encountered many people who hate America and America alone. Probably because we influence the world so much.
i just got one little question. If our invasion of Iraq was unjust and we just did it for oil, then why doesnt the UN do anything about it. By UN LAW they have to do something against an unjust invasion. That is why the UN was created in the first place. So, why doesnt anybody do anything about our “war crime” (really, invading iraq was a war crime if we just did it for oil)?
…i see this turning into a discussion about Hiroshima and Nagasaki and if the bombings saved lives or not.
…the nukes in japan DID INFACT save lives.
- Are you sure this is so common? In my time in America, I referred to “African-Americans” as “black” all the time, often directly to their face, and I never had anyone react negatively! I find it rather weird to call someone “African-American” if they’ve lived in America all their life and have no ties to Africa other than biological heritage. However, the term “black” isn’t related to a country or region as such, so it seems a lot more accurate in my view.
To put it in a different perspective - I’ve had several people call me “German” because of my blondish hair and blue eyes - and I was quite insulted by this, because I don’t have a German accent, any German heritage, and I’ve never even set foot in the country! (I have nothing against Germany, but I’m clearly not German myself.) On the other hand, I have no problem with being called “white” - it’s referring to the colour of my skin, sure, but it’s a term that’s free of any other connotations. It’s definitely a lot more accurate.
So, with “black” and “white”, I think you have to see that there are major differences between racial connotations, and racist connotations. We shouldn’t hide what race we belong to, or see ourselves as, so we need these terms. However, I think it’s easy to get acknowledgement of race mixed up with derogatory racial slurs. The two things are quite different!
I’m afraid I know nothing about any of these, not being familiar with American holidays, so I couldn’t say.
The trouble with affirmative action is all to do with goverment ideology. The idea is that with more ethnic minorities attending higher education, more will get into good jobs in the workplace. With me so far?
Unfortunately, this only addresses half the problem! The govt wants more minorities in jobs, with college as a means to get there. What they should really focus on is more minorities with good education. Jobs will naturally follow on from good education, but because affirmative action only starts at a tertiary level, it’s not soon enough to provide better education.
The government (and this goes for Australia, too, not just America) should really be spending this money on improving minority access to and attendance at basic primary and secondary education first. With a good background in those areas, a greater percentage will naturally graduate to college without government intervention! It’s simply a case of misplaced policy and awkward ideology that tackes a problem only after it’s developed instead of catching it at the roots.
blonde hair. blue eyes. 21 years old…call me
Here in america, we have gone crazy with this whole “political correctness” bs. We are SO afraid to offend anybody that we have to watch every word we say. I believe that your feelings are not covered under law, and we should not have to change our ways because it may make sombody feel uncomfortable. Europe is even worse. I have heard that if you scream the N word in the middle of a street you can be taken to jail (just an overnight visit in the cell)
And the part that bugs me the most, it is WHITE people who get offended when i say the word “black”. I say it to by fellow african friends and they dont care. at all. In fact, most of them let me say “nigga”, but only if it is used in the right way. (mods, i use that word simply as a word and that is all. The word only becomes a curse word or inccorect when used to discriminate or belittle). It is white people who jump on the opportunity to call me a racist. We (whites) are just perpetuating a policy that should have never been created.
i would also like to add that words are only words. It is the mood and connotation of the words that make it wrong. I should be able to say fk right now without a moderator censoring it. But if i said "im gonna crack your fking head open", then it should be bleeped. Anyway, what can a word really do to you? Damage you emotional development? The truth is i could say that word in front of a child 50 times a day and nothing would happen to him. Maybe he would start using the word, but thats all. I can understand how words like the N word and other racial slurs should not be said, because it attacks a group of people. I for one say we stop MOST censoring in everything, including TV. Whats the worst that could happen if an 11 year old say a female’s breast on TV. Will he loose sleep? Will he become a rapist? No, in fact he wont. The only things that should be censored are ACTUAL footage of people being killed (even though they still show it on the history channel), because some of those are just too disgusting.
o well. Thats my 2 pennies
Hah. You guys all seem to have my points covered. I’ll cover them briefly anyway, cuz I only skimmed the topic. But there is ONE thing I do wanna know;
There’s an asian history month? What the crap! When is that? ANd how come we never celebrated THAT in school? All we ever heard was “Black history month black history month black people are the only people in the whole freaking world that ever had hard times”. When is asian history month seriously though, cuz I never heard of it. And hispanic too. We had a thing on that once in school, but it wasn’t a month deal.
My 2 cents: Face it, people are racist. Its the way of the world. Like whoever said (Rad?) that had a really good point, everyone here likes to play the victim. Also, everyone likes to be better than everyone else. But as far as black and white goes, I feel that its completely different these days. Just from my own personal experiences (I know stuff is different, and I know people are different.), black people are the most racist people I’ve ever met. The black students at my school at the very least. They bring race into EVERYTHING and use it as a cheap excuse for anything. They can call you a cracker in front of the right teacher and won’t get a damn thing for it, even if you over react like they do (I seen it at least once before). But you even joke the N word, and they freak out and FORCE the teachers to punish you (I seen that too). One particular instance comes to mind to me that my asian friends cousin did something (I can’t even remember if it was his fault, its been a while) that got a black guy mad at him. Instead of even fighting one on one, he gathered every freaking black kid in the school (at least 200 that day) and just stormed through the hall in a wave. They came up to the front where me and my asian friends were hanging out and just starting talking trash to all of us and asking where he went and talking trash about asian people in general. >.<
Also, as far as the standardized testing goes, the race thing is for demographic only.
However scholarship crap pisses me off. Still though, since they are private organizations, they are allowed to say “You have to be black for us to help pay for your school.” So I can’t really complain. Its just rough.
Don’t get me wrong, its like I said, everyone’s racist.
Ack, where was I goin with this?
i am white, and i really dont understand why some white people are racist. If you look hard enough, you will see that blacks are actually a better suited race than whites. Just look. (what i am about to say is GENERAL and does not adhere to every member of a certain race).
- blacks jump higher.
- run faster
- no skin cancer (due to better protected skin)
- they are generally taller
- they build muscle faster.
theres a bunch more that i cant think of right now. But who really cares. In these days, none of that matters and we are all equal. Maybe i just think that because i am from Atlanta, which is extremely diverse. I really dont even see color.
…theres my 3’rd and 4’th pennies.
Pardon the silly ending in the second quote, but I was trying to make another point when I made that post.
Well, those two quotations are there for a reason: I wanted to show to you people that 1) races don’t exist in the first place and that 2) thus not everybody is racist because it’s physically impossible when you live among mixed blood, raceless people.
Also, I believe the US, for its historical segregation, might find it way easier to believe in races—as I said, if blacks only marry blacks, and whites only marry whites, and asiatics only marry asiatics, the physical differences are kept, and thus races do—to some extent—exist, which allows racism to exist. I don’t think that’s really relevant. If everyone’s sick and tired of segregation, than why not just ignore it? Oh, your government labels you and promotes black pride day? Well, so does mine, no one cares. Fight for the right of self determination, fight for the right of indefinition but don’t come tell me prejudice is there because the goverment promotes it.
Guys, if you’re tired of racism, than I’m afraid you’ll have to learn to see beyond “black” and “white”—not just rationally, but next time you see a guy another race in the street, actually not think the first thing “oh a negro” or “humpf, another stupid white man.” And don’t go cynical about it either. Racism isn’t natural, normal or humane. Believing in races in the first place isn’t normal.
So if your school promotes black history month but doesn’t promote european history (that’s so funny! we have both subjects toghether in History classes here in Brazil; I didn’t think it was possible to split subjects like that, as if nations didn’t keep relations to each other thoughout History), don’t feel discriminated. Just ignore it, it’s a stupid state policy for organizing (and, apparently, prioritizing) things.
If it makes no sense, than it will probably be dropped, eventually. Geez, you people make a big deal of races and racism in the first place, no wonder it’s still so strong there…
very true, bruno. There is only one race, the human race. When i say “race” i am just perpetuating a misconception that blacks and white are actually different creatures, which was a common belief held by slave owners. To them, blacks were just a beast of burdon. But no, there is no such thing as different races.
eh…despite what you think, race really isnt an issue in America, and i am not really pissed about it. I really couldnt care less about affirmative action and history months (even though they are just there so america can “make up” for all its done. Its kind of a petty apology).