The BIG DreamMaker topic

DreamMaker was tested the best it could be in the short life it has had so far. I was lucky enough to have 20 high school kids available to try the new design before it was shipped. These kids new nothing about Lucid Dreaming and that was what I wanted. They really didn’t know what to expect so the data I got back was very good. Over 50% had some form of Lucid Dream within 2 weeks without practicing cues during the day. One of them told me,“I was siting in my kitchen doing my homework and on the table was one of those misting fountains with colored lights. When i looked up from my work I noticed the lights in the fountain were unusually bright and strange. When i put my attention on it i was transported to a room with Dreammaker Masks all over and nobody around. I saw swirls of color on the walls and this is when I realized I was dreaming.”

At first there were too many triggers and I needed to turn down the sensitivity. Then there is a variable I call “field selectivity”. If the infrared led is set to a “narrow beam” then contrast is increased and detection gets better, BUT only if the narrow beam is located directly on the eyelid. I have been finding that Left/right eye seperation on various people are quite different so it is hard to say “the eyelid should be right here” So then to accomodate the difference in peoples facial geometery the IR beam needed to be made wider instead of narrower. Which meant the sensitivity needed to be increased and so on - a lot of variables that you can only make a best guess on by averaging responses from a number of people. I expected to do upgrades after the release. I did have a good starting point, that of the Nova Dreamer design, then go from there. If you knew there was a degree of error in detection would you choose to error on the side of less more reliable triggers or more triggers - knowing a lot of them would be false? It’s a tricky situation. there is only so much testing you can do in the lab - then it needs to go out to the people for feedback.
Here is a challenge for you - you go and spend that $20 on making your own and i will be willing to bet that you would see quickly how big the task of making a reliable Lucid Dream Mask really is. To me it’s almost like saying “I saw the schematics for the space shuttle in popular science I can make that for under a thousand bucks. Why does Nasa spend so much?”

" I expected to do upgrades after the release. "

That, solely, is why I would’nt want to buy one of these. Would I be getting a good deal if I bought something for 400 bucks that still had problems/had some “guessed” features and additions?

This thread struck a chord in my memory, so I did a (very quick) search, and found this thread.
[url]The BIG DreamMaker topic]

Were the issues raised here ever dealt with satisfactorily?
If not, I personally would be rather leery of ordering the product.

There are now photos and more information about DreamMaker on site
They wrote that DreamMaker has not EMG. They change their mind, that EMG is good to REM detection.
“We tried using EMG but the results varied too much from person to person.”


Here are some questions that I think are important:

  1. What’s your connection to the Lucidity institute and how much do they actually have to do with your product?

  2. What’s all that about electromyography detection? How can you detect electricity INSIDE the muscles with an external face mask?

You didn’t ask me, but…

1)There is no conection with the Lucidity Institute. TLI is working on their own new model.

  1. As I understand it, EMG sensors don’t neccesarily need to be inserted into muscles – surface/skin contact is generally sufficient for such purposes.
    Additionally, I wouldn’t be surprised (wild-assed guess, here) if it turned out to actually be a GSR (galvanic skin response) sensor, anyways.

I want you all to know that I’m here for you. I thought you wanted more features a newly designed more comfortable mask and such.
It seems you just want it cheaper even if I have to use rubber bands and paperclips to hold it together?
Just tell me what price point you really think is reasonable and features that it must have at that price. Remember the Nova Dreamers reliability was very bad and I’m trying to make it better. The technology right now is not 100%. Together we can better the technology. If I was designing a new laser or something like that it could be totally tested in the lab, but something like this needs to go thru iterations of testing on different people. I could try harder to keep the final cost down if this is the main thing you are looking for.
The concept of EMG was done away with when I saw how people were getting varied results with it. I decided to make the IR detection better. I twould be a lot easier if I could just have head electrodes going to an eeg ciruit then you can get a really good detection of REM but there would be too many issues with that and uncomfortable too.
As far as Lucidity Institute goes when the Nova Dreamer was unattainable by distributors about a year ago a was in communication with them thru Keelin. I wanted to help them with their manufacturing and distribution of their next generation nova Dreamer. We talked for about 8 months then in October of 2004 they had a meeting and decided to just do their conferences and not deal with the Nova Dreamer anymore due to being shorthanded at the Institute.
I knew there was a need for a device like this and set out as fast as possible to provide it. This technology has never been 100% it’s still a work in progress - let’s get something together everyone will like - for both price and features.

The biggest problem I have with it (at this time) is, as you pointed out, the price. Unless it works flawlessly ensuring lucid dreams once a day or two days (or something extraordinary like this) I probably will never be able/want to cough up the money for it.

At this point the features don’t matter if it costs as much as it does (unless, like I said, it works almost every time). If it works “Ok” or “pretty good” like it seems to now, it’d only be worth putting about a hundred or so dollars in to.

Basically: I would say, either make it work great/flawless, or lower the price of it.

It is still an absurd price and if you read the previous posts, people claim that they ordered one and never received their dream maker and had problems getting refunds. :down:

First of all, hello Bruce and welcome to the forum, nice to have you here! I’d like to put my ideas on your mask here based on what I heared so far, perhaps it might be useful to you.

Ok, so this is a nice test. 50% of subjects got at least one LD during 2 weeks! But according to me (and probably many others here on the forum), if you would put together another group of these students, who dont know anything about LDing, and you would teach them certain well known methods to induce LD’s (like WBTB + MILD, which works for a lot of starters very quickly!), my bet is that you could get at least the same result. Granted, one would have to put real effort into it, but this effort would be well worth the result and would not cost anyone 400 dollar (if that is really the price, I would never spend such a huge amount on such a device).

My conclusion sofar would be (and I dont want to offend you personally, this is aimed purely at the product and price), that your tool is a nice gadget for rich people who are too lazy to invest serious effort into learning to expand their nightly endeavours, or for those who wish to try and test a gadget besides their current induction techniques, that might (or might not) help them to gain lucidity and are willing to pay big time for it. Also it might be helpful for people who lack the time to LD seriously, perhaps fot those with a bizzy job schedule and not a lot of sleep. I could see how this could be useful to such people if you were to keep working on the dream maker to make it even more succesful.


I cant say I tested the product enough, but when I was having a lucid on my own, there were no triggers, lights or alarm. I dont think facial twitching, and eye flutters(opening/closing) are reliable. Why only one sensor. Why not 2 one for each eye, where is the logic in that. I agree in this product was not tested enough. I like the business that bruce is in, I think he’s doing a great job. This is in my opion but I think Bruce saw a great opportunity to get into this Lucid market since the Nova Dreamer is around 600+. But the product was rushed (even by the consumer) because everyone wanted one.

I think everyone has to find out what works for them. I’ve had better luck using my Luma 10 at 4 am and playing a lucid induction CD, but that just works for me!

My 2 cents

I’d definately be willing to give something like this a try. I used to want a Nova Dreamer but they have since become so scarce and expensive that I’ve abandonded that idea altogether.
Like I said I’d gladly try this and report my results. I’m the kinda guy who’s dreams frequently are influenced by outside sensory input, so I have a feeling that this’d work well for me. As for the price, hey, I can always sell it if it doesn’t work. At least I’ll have tried it.

I think that was a sarcastic and exaggerated comment in an effort to justify your high price! No one here wants you to give the thing away for free but, you make an obscene profit on each sale. You know it and so do we. Like someone said, the technology for the dream maker is cheap and people could build one for $20.00 if they have even minor knowledge in electronics. So how do you justify $400.00 per unit.(I also understand that your price is going up to $1000.00 after this trial release).


Great job losing a purchase from me and undoubtedly thousands of others


See thistopic I explain how you can just use your own creativity to get a nova dreamer effect. No technical skills required!

Yea, I saw it and linked to it in this thread :razz:

Isn’t that the ‘Pro’ model going up in price?

I wouldnt consider a dream maker until they put 2 sensors, one for each eye to start. One sensor absolutly makes no sense! For a basic test I put the mask on, kept my eyes closed then moved them around inside - no trigger what so ever!

I have more luck playing my CD looping from 3-6 AM. I usually hear it in my dreams and go lucid no problems and that was free!


Didn’t the NovaDreamer have one eye-movement sensor? (I could be confusing it with a “homebuilt” design)?

Anyways, I would think that one is enough (as both eyes move together). Two sensors might – or might not – improve such devices performance.

Does anyone have more specific info?

my problem right now is a trust issue…

i don’t think the mask EVER had electromyography capabilities, AT BEST it was electrodermal (GSR) or nothing at all… So the fact they suddenly “removed it” cause it wasn’t working is all a load of crap… Cause if you WOULD remove it, you’d make it cheaper (since it has one less important feature)… which didn’t happen.

I’m still curious as to how the sensors were placed and the data recorded and if this question would be answered I’d probably give the product some slack.

but given the fact he probably lied about it, i don’t see why ANYONE should trust him or any of his products.