The BIG DreamMaker topic

I’d suggest that this exchange basically confirms the story that one finds when searching the net. This subject might be worth a sticky topic of its own – It’s a story that’s been discussed on this board a fair bit already.

To wit:

*Inflated, misleading and frequently revised (downwards) claims and assertations. Poorly designed, poorly built products, that don’t perform as advertised, let alone accomplish the desired goal. That’s assuming the product actually arrives after it’s been paid for.

*Generally poor service, lots of excuses, and special pleading, denial of responsability. There are occassional “example cases” of better service but they appear to be strongly atypical cases (and generally these people aren’t – as far as I can tell – well known to any community where they appear or are refered to) . The Better Business Bureau, bulletin boards like this one, “fraud watch” style websites and organaziations, and and a surprising number of spcially created websites document an ongoing pattern of dissatisfied costomers.

*A pronounced tendency to blame the customer for not accepting excuses, or for not considering promises to someday deal with the problem as equivilent to actually dealing with the problem. Often accompanied (several exchanges down the line) by variations on the “if you had been more constructive/nicer/more trusting, I would have fixed your problem yesterday” speech – often completely ignoring the actual content of the original complaint.

And a question for anyone in the know -- what exactly about this product would be patentable?  

As far as I know, anything that is legitimately patentable has already been patented by LaBerge or The Lucidity Institute (which perhaps wasn't really properly patentable, but at least the case could be made) and is probably near expiry date by now anyways.   Certainly nothing in Gelerter's device get's around "prior art" considerations.

You know, no one would be here with this problem letting people know " HEY it’s a rip off, save your money" if the dreammaker cost $99 dollars and the dreammaker pro cost $149.

Well I personally would not buy any of this guys products.
Anyway, the dream maker(and its problems) has been discussed many times before:
DreamMaker - the new novadreamer
Dream Maker - Phoen’s Personal Review
Perhaps a mod could merge all the dream maker topics into one thread for people to read.

I am sorry to be beating a dead horse, just going on and on about this. I wish I had done my research and found this forum before buying the DreamMaker.

reddog, I hope you are wrong. Yes, more people would be inclined to just say “forget it”, but getting ripped off is no deal, at any price.

i think the price has a lot to do with unsatisfied customers, and i don’t see why that’s wrong in any way. At least you know for 99$ you don’t expect spectacular features that were claimed to exist… If it comes and you see it doesn’t have EMG, then whatever, it was 99$ and the price is somewhat justified (25 - 50$ for components MAX, and 50$ for research/profit)…

But when you ask way too much for something that (not that it doesn’t work, it may work, but it’s not what it was claimed to be) of course people will get upset

Good idea.

The three topics have been merged. Please don’t post about DreamMaker outside this topic.

You seem to know about this stuff alot rassle. You talked about novadreamer as if you used it. Does novadreamer work? Readding what you have posted I believe that it works better then dreammaker, but if the dreammaker doesn’t work, that isn’t saying much.

EDIT: also wanted to know if it would do what the little news clip showed, be able to walk you into a WILD in 15mins. Something I have only done twice in my life. Most my lucid dreams don’t last long(maybe 3mins), most the time I wake. Last night I was looking at my feet and my right foot had two more feet on the other side of it, was a dead give away. I got out of bed and walked out side and the sky was black, strange because every time before the sky was purple and gray with lighting. The spining thing worked also I did that for the first time other wise I wouldn’t have made it out side.

Is this what they call outter-body?

reddog, I don’t know a whole lot, but as a technician, I tend to look at things logically. I found the NovaDreamer operations manual online so I had that as a basis on which to judge the DreamMaker. From researching the NovaDreamer, I knew a little of its operation, so when the DreamMaker came out advertising all these great improvements with a pre-order price of $200 and seeing how the NovaDreamer was no longer being produced and the remaining stock selling for upwards of $700 for the Basic model… yeah, I took that blind leap. Fool I was.
I was thinking of selling it on eBay, but I would be just as bad as Bruce Gelerter, ripping people off. So I am going to eat this loss, but I am going to do my part to warn people about Bruce Gelerter.

He seems a bit childish for a company CEO. Certainly not professional. I think he’s got manufacturer-customer misunderstandings too. I don’t mean to be a jerk, but frankly, you don’t give a paying customer a sob story guilt trip. You give them the product as described or you give them their money back, how dare they try to make the customer(who was completely deceived and ripped off [even if he’s telling the truth and that wasn’t his intention]) feel guilty for complaining??

“The Costomer is always right!”

Our pal Bruce has forgotten this.

I think being an ***, even if you are a customer is wrong. But calling your customer one(esp. one with valid concerns), is a bad idea.

Bruce Gelerter calls himself a CEO, but it’s just a one man operation. He isn’t childish, in my opinion, he is a outright con-artist. Bruce has been involved in “Get Rich Quick” schemes for a long time. Search Google.
Just wanted to let you all know, that he is now trying to sell his junk through
I’m trying to get a review posted.

Just an FYI if you have problems with this product:

Complain to the better business bureau so there is a record of complaints but don’t expect action. The BBB is just a private not for profit organization and has no authority of law.

Complain to:

Your states bureau of consumer affairs and your states attorney generals office.

You are correct, milod789, Thanks. The BBB is pretty much just a toothless tiger, but all you have to do, is respond to the charges and they clear your record.
I’ll just keep tracking Bruce Gelerter and try to stop him before he can get anything started.

Yes, the BBB is toothless but you should still complain to them if you have a problem.

However, your states bureau of consumer affairs and attorney generals office are not toothless. They have legal authority and resources to go after people. The Bureau of Consumer Affairs shut down for a while because of complaints.

Teach me to research things properly before buying them on the internet… sigh. :sad:

This was earlier today, though, so it couldn’t have been shipped yet.

I sent bruce a very nice e-mail asking to please refund my money and not ship, I hope he really is just a nice guy who isn’t very good at business…

It pains me to do it, to be honest, even with everyhting that has been said here… If he really is a bad guy, he’s at least at good actor. Or I’m more of a moron than I give myself credit for.

Either way, I figure if he doesn’t comply, I go through the proper procedure with paypal, and all is well with the world?

I could use the voice of experience here, I’ve never screwed up a purchase this bad, before.

Thank you.

i was scammed by bruce of wellness tool when purchasing a dream maker pro. buyer beware this guy is a con artist and will rip you off if you give him the chance. i purchased the dream maker pro in november and still havent recieved it. what i did recieve was a cheaply made peice of crap that i cant even sleep with it that uncomfortable. its so badly put together it was falling appart when i recieved it. i am very dishartened by this expirience and doubt i will order any thing online soon. after 20+ emails to bruce and no replies ive given up hope. i hope you can all learn from my bad expirience and stay away from this con.
IMO what bruce did was use the preorder money to put together a poorly designed unit that cost $50 at the very most. no doubt his living it up as we speak.

$500 down the drain.

very disappointed

:eh: wow… that sucks man… there has got to be a way you can sue or atleast get your money back… espeically if it was $500 :cry:

i don’t have the means to sue this guy as im located outside of america. i requested a refund several times and didn’t get a reply. i also informed him that if it wasn’t resolved i would go public on these boards. this didn’t seem to worry him as it was several months ago and nothing was done. by now bruce has probably take the money and run so i doubt theres much i can do. i will take this as an expencive lesson and learn from it.

I’m not in the US either, but that isn’t stopping me. I have returned the package, and when it gets to him, I’ll expect my money back. If he doesn’t give it to me, I’ll sue him. A friend of mine is a lawyer in the US, will help me out.

And because it’s about principle now, I won’t stop suing him until he does what he promises to do on his site anyway, there’s a 30 day money back guarantee.

If it goes that far, we might be able to co-sue him?

Worse comes to worse, he’s the one that’s fucked.

If he doesn’t cause a problem, though, there’s nothing I can do, sorry.