the cheapest, easiest to build dream goggles EVER!

So… I been wondering, how do you program a PIC chip? Do you take it in to an electronics place and they’ll charge you to do it? I’m interested in making this one.

Edit: Wait, I found a link that tells you how to make a programmer. Don’t know how much it costs, though.

/me is sad because everyone has lost interest in this topic and no-one is answering
/me 's questions

sorry. I guess Ill answer them real quick. To the best of my knowledge, I dont know of any place that will program the chips for you. The creator of the mask you linked to, however, will send you all the components for a pretty cheap amount. As to programming chips on your own, just google around there are tons of different programmers out there ranging from quite simple for only a single chip to a bit more complex to be able to program many different kinds of chips. You should look into picaxe chips if you want to make your life really easy, they are normal pic chips with a bootloader put on it that makes it easy to program (though you are limited to their basic language only). Good luck.

Hey guys,

I’m not doing anything as fancy as a DIY Kvasar, but it might be interesting still. I made a simple digital timer with a cell phone vibrator, that goes off at set times in the sleep cycle. I’m planning on adding GSR sensing to it once I get enough data about how the resistance varies with my setup. If you’re interested in following along, check out:

Hopefully that will blossom into a series of posts about my experiences with this setup.


ok i’ve set my phone to vibrate and loudly beep at 1:00 am every morning :happy:

hopefully it will work :wink:

apparently, 1:00 am isn’t part of my REM cycle, so i’m just gonna try different times of night each day until I get it right :happy:

ok just found this site today so happy i did lol, so much great stuff and discussions. I’m trying to get back into attempting to LD, kind of gave up or forgot about it like 6 months ago, would love to make a pair of these glasses though to help assist me in achieving my goals, always thought the NovaDreamer and others looked really cool. I’m pretty much a complete novice when it comes to electronics however, I want to make the easier glasses that have been tutorialed with using the parallel port. However i have a newer laptop that doesnt have a parallel port, so i’m wondering; I remember people mentioning thinking about doing it, but has anyone made these glasses with a serial port connection? Would it be pretty much the same construction process as if u were to use a parallel port? Or if not would something like a parallel port to usb cord converter work just the same so i could use it on my laptop? Thanks in advance really want to make myself a pair of these :smile: (btw sorry if this has already been answered, tried to read through all the posts might have missed some tho)

Hi computerman can you send me your zip file?
I want to create the kvasar.

If you want to replicate nate’s LD device using PICAXE can you do it with the PICAXE 08 or 08M chip?

If you want to make something as powerful as the REM dreamer what’s the next chip up from the PICAXE you would need for this?

Well, nate’s device if I remember correctly was nothing more than a couple of time delays till flashing LEDs so either the 08 or 08M would work fine. The REM dreamer is actually a very simple but touchy device having to do with IR signals. All you really need to get started is something to drive the LED (no problem) and something to interpret the signals from your IR receiver(once again no problem)…The problem comes about with getting the device to get stable signals and interpret them correctly. You could probably still pull this off with either chip. The 08M does have a few perks that could make it easier…overall I prefer the 08M.

Many thanks for the fast reply

I didn’t think I would get an answer as the thread is so old

To the best of my knowledge I don’t think it’s possible to make the REM dreamer with a PICAXE 08M. From seeing pictures of the REM dreamer on their website, it shows the PIC as being a 28 pin chip. The PICAXE 08M is just 8 pins but only 5 input/output. I would imagine you would need something like the 28X1 or 28X2 PICAXE chip wouldn’t you agree?

The REM dreamer does have a lot of functions compared to Nate’s device. It far supersedes any of the other REM LD masks to this date especially when you buy the REM dreamer pro package which allows connection to a PC among some other features. For this the bigger PICAXE is best suited I would agree, wouldn’t you?

It all depends on how many features you want to implement. I was saying that for something that simply senses eye movement and responds you could do so with the smaller 8pin chips. These chips do even have the capability of communicating with the computer through the serial port(be careful of the voltage levels…).

However, if you want room on board the chip to store data or are going to communicate with something outside(such as an i2c eeprom for memory storage) or will have lot of different settings, or multiple outputs. A larger chip would be necessary. Essentially it completely depends upon how many features you want to implement.

Okay so it all depends on the features you want to implement. So do you think if you want to make it detect just REM movements you could do it on an PICAXE 08? or would you need the 08M?

I thought there is nothing you can do with wanting room on board on all PICAXE chips as they all have to have room for you to be able to program it with your source code, right?

What IR sensor for detecting REM would you suggest to use with the 08/08M PICAXE chips?

How much would it cost to build this LD device?

Sorry for all the questions but it would be great to know, I really like PICAXE chips for their simplicity.

Many thanks in advance

The reason why the space on the chip matters is because some of the chips have set aside memory for variables and others have (such as the 8 pin ones) share that memory with the program. More program, less memory for storage. Also it limits the amount of code you have.

I dont think the price difference between the 08 and 08M is very much, and I like the additional features on the 08M.

As for IR sensor, you can look at what the kavasar used, but I honestly dont know.

As to cost, that once again depends on what you want to do. Different sensors are different prices, chips are different prices, whether you make a pcb or use a premade board changes the price. Also there are all of the tools depending on what you have at your disposal.

Also, feel free to IM me at the aim username provided on my profile.

Many thanks for your reply

I will have to look into all this in more detail

Here is the kvasar site

The IR sensor is the S4810 or 4826 Photosensor by hamamatsu … ex_en.html

The kvasar site said that if you have trouble finding the hamamatsu one you can then use use Sharp IS489 or the HLC2701 by Honeywell instead.

Been looking at lithium-ion button cell rechargeable batterries which are rated at 3.7 volts.

The smaller, lighter and less bulky we can make this device the more comfortable it will be to sleep with.

Yea, Ive seen that style battery, its pretty nice. What exactly is your level of experience in electronics? Also, honestly, if you are completely serious about this, I find the IR approach a bit odd. I suggest you do some research on EOG. I know there is an ancient thread on here from someone who built a dream detection device based around that and an atmel microcontroller.

I am a complete beginner in electronics but am a fast learner and very keen to take on a project.

Here I found from a forum search on here some threads back EOG part this is the one I think you are talking about … hlight=eog

A long while back there was a guy on here called meusopusmagnus and he was working on EEG type device for detecting REM by wearing something on your finger. Unfortunately his profile shows he hasn’t visited the site for a few years. Of course all of these methods were being worked on years ago with nothing coming out. IR sensors have come a long way and I think there more simple and accurate now with the current state of technology. Which is why I would rather go down the route of IR sensors.

Here is a real world product that uses EOG technology. … ?nPID=1752 The watch PAT-200 and watch pat-100 by imatar medical. Both models cost $5000, they detect REM/NREM and loads of other things all from a sensor on the finger. Now if only we could create that tech for under $100. If we bought one of these and stripped it apart and made the device light up some LED’s when the sensor picks up REM.

I really like the EOG method personally since it is medically valid. Another way is detecting muscle tonus near the chin(dont remember the muscle) since due to sleep paralysis it goes low during REM sleep. Also, the device you sent me uses the PAT method, this is also medically verified…you should look at it in more detail… I have not seen any hobbyist attempts at using it.

We could go on for another few years and get nowhere with development if we continue to look at other technologies for detecting REM. I seen it happen here for the last 5 years, it’s got nowhere. We are all trying to make that best device using new tech when we are better off taking things like IR sensors which are real and readily available and just making a simple REM detecting device without all the best of the best features which you will never use like found in other very expensive LD devices. Sure with other tech we may get better results, but IR sensors shouldn’t be overlooked.

I suppose. I just know a lot of people don’t like to wear a mask to sleep. EOG is actually not too difficult to implement using simple op-amps and reading in the voltage level through the adc on a chip. Heck, if you wanted to go as absolutely simple as possible you could create a small opamp circuit wired to a timer such as the 555 and just record the voltage as a frequency using standard mic/line in port on a computer.