the POINT of LDing

Iteresting perspective you have. I’m not so much for the total control thing, I want to be able to do things, fantastic things, but I don’t care much about controlling DCs. You can basically go through a lucid dream and not control anything at all anyway. Lucid dreamin is not about control, it’s about consiousness. Am I to take it that your normal dreams are extremely vivid? Because lucidity is also associated with vividity, this I think is reason enough to pursue them.
You can’t possibly exhaust the possibilities of lucid dreams. There is always something to explore, and they are unpredictable just like normal dreams. I enjoy all this much much more if I am lucid at the time it’s happening. The state of consciousness itself is marvellous, I don’t have to do anything, just look. Ofcourse I can’t stay still. Then there is the complete sense of freedom that is never felt in the waking state. Those are soem of the reasons why I am into lucid dreaming.

There happen to be two reasons for me:

  1. Fun, mainly. Being able to steal a car and speed down the road at 100 MPH and then jump out and fly away is nothing short of awesome.
  2. Spirituality, if I have the time. More of an exploring yourself thing, not “what is the meaning of life thing”, unless the two coincide.

LDs aren’t a big deal to me any more.

I’d much rather have NDs as they are much more fun to me. Sure it’s nice to know that if I want to I can take control and perhaps try something new, or complete a specific quest.

But I like the randomness and excitement of following a storyline that my subconscious gives me, so regular dreams are much more fun to me, particularly when they are nightmares the rush of fear I get in nightmares is unparalleled by anything I have experienced in an LD.

I dont believe LDing is mainly a desire for control. Sure, that is the main way that people thing of LDing, but the actual definition of LDing is becoming aware of being in a dream. In general it is just a way of becoming more aware of what is going on around you. For me personally, it is mostly just a way to have a whole lot of fun, but that doesnt have to be the case.

Also, in specific response to your preferring the unpredictability of NDs; you can have that in LDs too! You can continue to let the dream take its own course even after you become lucid. If anything, you could use your newly gained lucidity to make the experience even better, such as by making the dream more vivid. You could also take a more direct approach and try to create something random or go through a door with the intention of appearing in a place of your subconscious’s choice.

The possibilities are endless and I dont think you can narrow the point behind LDing down to just a desire for control.

As for us, we would rather experience the random majesty of dreams while still in them instead of merely remembering them when we wake up. LD’s are just as random as ND’s most of the time, unless you make it otherwise. It’s all about awareness, not control, although the ability to control does follow awareness.

this is kind of where im a too.
because when i become lucid, its as if everything stops and waits for me to do something… and if i dont do anything then i wake up.
i cant just expect my LD to show me something “random” without me actually coming up with the idea first, which to me isnt random at all.
its like me thinking in my LD “okay, im going to open this door and let my subconscious take me wherever it wants!” then i open the door and wake up…since i didnt think up an idea of where the door should lead me.
thats the only reason why it seems less likely that a LD can be unpredictable.
when i say “control” that is what people are doing when they say they do it “to have fun” or “to learn more about myself” …isnt this still control? you are controlling your dream to do these things, right?

you put it perfectly!

You’ll have to explain that one. Since my LDs and NDs are more or less identical in all aspects, with the obvious exception of not knowing I am dreaming and having no control. I have the same level of depth and “majesty” in my NDs as I do my LDs, I can’t say I just “merely remember them on waking up” regardless as to whether I have control/knowledge that I am dreaming.

I can’t say I am quite that bad. I do have LD’s where I do continue to follow the dream, but if I try to take control sometimes the world ceases to do anything interesting, the dream it’s self seems to be too bland and boring as though becoming “too lucid” turns off the creative part of me that was running the dream. Granted I can choose to do something interesting myself, but the dream story becomes dull and monotonous or ceases to exist without my direction.

That’s the way I see it. Although it you want to “learn more about yourself” I personally think that you are going to learn more from your actions in an ND than an LD, although with an LD you do have the chance to ask your DCs what they represent about you, though I don’t really think the answers you will get are always accurate or genuine since you can influence the DC’s response by thinking what it may represent.

Now I noticed I haven’t really answered the original question posed: my question is: is the desire to LD the desire for control?

For me, the desire to LD is usually to do a specific thing as opposed to all our control. For example, one of the tasks from another forum was to become a non-animal being. When I actively pursue lucidity, it is to do that sort of thing.

In one dream I became lucid, I attempted to turn myself into fire. In other’s I wanted to see what would happen if I walked through a mirror. So control is part of it in that aspect, but my goal is to try things that I couldn’t normally do but as I mentioned above, I prefer to follow the dream to lucidity often slips away from me.

The downside to that is that when I want to do something, when lucidity comes I often forget and follow the dream. :peek:

You’re right that self control IS control. But I make a difference between dream control and self control in a dream. It depends a little on what you do. Basically, anything you can do in real life, I say, is not dream control, it’s just opportunistic. And if the dream gives no resistance, you don’t have to “bend the rules” so to speak. But changing the scenery and all that, is definately dream control. However if the dream already grants you powers, such as flight, or a remote control that changes the weather, AS the case might be with DILDs, Then you are just going along with the dream, not controling it. That’s how I see it.
If you ask if lucid dreaming is the desire for SELF control, then I say yes perhaps, if what you hope to get out of the dream is the control itself. For me it is not the control itself that is the attraction but what I can experience using it. The experience is the point, of everything in life, I believe.

my best lucid dreams have been when i walked around exploring not trying to control anything

just seeing where my mind wants to take me, and going for walks

i have had some really interesting experiences that way, like traveling into what feels like past lives

one time i was in the past and wanted to see what their beers looked like

let me tell you, the past is weird

my worst and least fulfilling lds are when i seek drugs or sex

do you think you could experience drugs in a dream? …or only what you remember from experience, or what you imagine it would be like?

im really enjoying everyones opinions of LDs :smile:

maybe, but my subconcious makes most of my (lucid) dreams, i don’t like to change the scene much, i just like to go out of a door and then be in a town when i didn’t change anything about it(off course, in those few LD’s that i’ve han i’ve often exerted more power on my dreams because i was interested in my powers in dreams)

not saying i don’t enjoy the feeling of control

Well the main point of LDing other than experience is it’s benefits.
-do whatever a mind can imagine(fun, adventure, explore, do things that aren’t possible in real life)
-practicing real-life skills(jumping from high altitude with no parachute to make sure you’re not afraid of heights)
-creativity and problem solving, learning, personal growth
-overcoming your #1 fear, nightmares
-therapy both for mind and body
-full sense of freedom for anyone disabled(permanent injuries)
-direct connection to the subconsciousness
-telepathy:subconsciousness is WAY much better at telepathy than we are, so it can help you talk to your relatives at alaska or even have a shared lucid dream with someone

It’s the same like asking: What’s the point in playing Video Games?
Desire to control? (Cheats)
Escapism? (RPG’s)
Mental-Rebuilding? (Intelectual and games such as “Cloud”)
Or just pure fun? (NWN2 :razz:)

I agree with most, the point is being able to do things that are
impossible in RL. Which is mad.

The knowledge that all you see is in your head, that another reality is so easily assessable is pretty mind blowing. Nothing fascinates me more the the mind, what the hell is going on in there!

Yeah, that and among other things, experiencing things that you wouldn’t normally want to do, like fly. It can help you overcome problems you have like public speaking, or you know, living out such fantasies.

Wow, this topic is very depressing I must say. It definitely downs people in hopes of achieving LD, if it can become that boring in a lucid dream, what is the point ? Well, some may ask the point of life, if you don’t see a point, it is simple… Make a decision, quit or seek. This means find something (anything) that will intrigue you, or more simply… Quit. :content: It is pointless to discuss such matters of whether there is a point or not, everyone has their opinions on what the point is of anything in existence. Think about it for just a second. There isn’t anything that anyone here can say to sway you either way, you know the facts right? So therefore, make your decision, quit lucidity/ or seek out what you can really find to enjoy it better yourself.

I could think of all kinds of scenarios to play out in LD, all kinds of things you can do. Not only role play, but problem solve or practice a certain aspect of your life. Think positive about your LD experiences, and look forward to what you will do next! I suggest making a list, which you may have already done, but it’s just a small suggestion. Someone here in this topic said they they were practicing to control all the elements? What a great idea, that one went straight onto my list, and this is the kind of thing I mean. If there is no point, make one, or just stop period. The way I would go is to constantly think positively about it and create new awesome things to do.

To be honest, this post will most likely infuriate you, which is never my intention. It just seems that I post things that really get on peoples nerves, it isn’t my fault lol. However the best decisions are usually that of split-second. I found myself really discouraged after reading this, but it still won’t stop me. The reason I post this is purely of my own opinion, and hold it against me if you wish. I am just saying that I doubt this is good for aspiring LD’ers.

In conclusion, if you chose seek allow me to help you a bit. You may just be looking in the wrong places, perhaps you might want to relax on a beach? I will go through some sub categories. Something that I want to do so badly is conquer my fears of roller coasters, and even skydiving. So I decide why not start in lucid dreaming? There is a goal right there for me, another is say participate in mastering something IWL only get better at it in your dream state. Maybe there is something you need to rehearse for, try it in a LD. Possibly someone pissed you off, do the right thing and take your anger out in your dream, kick his :woo: ! I am merely recommending things, small things, just examples if you will. The rest is up to you, find out and write out what you think you need/want to do. :content:

Rant on. Or was that dream on? =P Whatever, lulz.
Seriously, good luck on your adventures. :content:

i basically want to do stuff in lds that are physically inpossible to do iwl …such as flying seeing other planets etc…its a really funny thing and to some peope it can be used as therapy also.

hey i forgot about this thread completely untill someone recently posted! what a great topic. pats self on back

im sorry if this makes me sound really stupid, but was that meant towards me? just because when you say that this post is supposed to infuriate me, im not really sure how it would :confused:
i never said there is no point in LDing… i wanted to know what everyones personal goals for LDs, and if they happened to have anything to do with control.
not surprisingly most people practice LDing for that very purpose :smile:
my beliefs about the point of LDing vary from time to time depending on what is going on in my life i guess… but its almost never the same as my beliefs about life.
im sorry that you felt discouraged when you read this post, thats probably the last thing i thought would come out of it, and is the furthest from what i got from it. i was actually very inspired to see what people are doing in there dreams as apparently you were too, with controlling elements?
anyways i feel a bit bad that this post seemed depressing. maybe i felt depressed about my dreaming situation and it all got started off on that foot.
thanks for the long-winded helping post though, im glad i got your input!