i’m in but the thing is that i have never had a LD so i will be trying to do that while i learn to deal with SP
I understand your main aim is a lucid dream, that’s also my aim, or more precise to have a lot of LD’s. But I want to take a gradual process now. But it is perfectly ok if you join and strive to have your first LD in the process. Anyhow, doing this practise will greatly enhance the chance to have a lucid dream, for sure.
So good luck, and keep me updated, maybe I can help, maybe we can help each other.
I like how your method is to get used to SP and everything, but I must say that “normal” SP isn’t required to WILD. If you don’t encounter “normal” SP phenomena such as hearing voices, it doesn’t mean that you aren’t in SP.
Well, I think that your mind may have been too awake. Especially considering that you said your “mind [was] very awake” and that you were “playing with your mind”. For WILD you need to keep your mind awake, but not so awake that your body will not fall asleep. And not so little that your mind falls asleep with it.
Good luck on your WILD quest!
Thanks for you post.
I don’t know very much about the SP in WILD. In many descriptions I read they talk about the SP. When I did wilds years ago, I always passed through SP (maybe because I was expecting it that way).
I believe that when you get more accustomed to the state where SP takes control, and the deep trance states in which this is possible, it must be much easier to have LD’s at will. That’s what I am going to find out
I recently had two lucid dreams trying to get in this SP state, so I decided to explore it more systematically now.
Anyhow, it is good to know you don’t need full SP to get Lucid and it is good to know you actually can be in SP without these sounds and rushing feelings. I will keep this in mind, maybe I am looking to far for now, but I don’t mind at the moment, I want to know much more about SP for the moment.
And yes, I know, in the end my mind became to active, I just couldn’t fall asleep any more, Lucid dreams and even SP are out of reach I guess when mind is to active. It is always like this, when I get to a point where my mind gets to awake, I can spend hours and hours in this state, and nothing happens, it is like deep meditation, it feels good, but is not what I am aiming at for the moment. That’s why I begin to play with my mind, to see if I can tire it again, because if I just do nothing, nothing happens.
Any ideas how to knock this active mind out and fall back asleep anyhow? In this stage of the training, I can really fall asleep again, because the beep will wake me up again anyhow. I think it is easier to learn what my mind and body needs to fall asleep if I don’t even have to try to stay slightly awake.
Later on I will use what I have learned to be able to fall asleep with my mind slightly awake = WILD.
I woke up at 3:30 this morning, got up, and after some stretching went back to bed, playing the mp3. But it was much harder to fall back asleep this time. Maybe because it is a weekday, I am more tense probably, also I am suffering from a light cold, and my daughter was coughing a lot in a room close by, so not so good conditions.
Anyhow, managed to get to the numb state after some time, but almost hearing every beep while still awake, so the beep was not waking me up. Maybe I should make an mp3 myself and leave more time 15 minutes or more between the beeps. I will try that.
In this state I always feel good, it doesn’t matter anymore if I sleep or not, but this time I tried to keep my mind as low as possible, to be able to fall asleep anyway, I came to the edge several times, feeling some tingling feelings starting in some parts of my body, but it faded away again. At one point I fell really asleep and dreamed that there where two men in the room I was in. I asked them if they could help me to pull myself out of my body, but then in some way I could look at myself (in the dream) and saw I was looking totally different then myself, so I said, no, that’s not me, don’t pull me out like that, because then I will be somebody else. Lol, my damn mind was playing nasty tricks with me again, I woke up from this.
So, no real progress this morning. But it is interesting though. And I feel that I am close to SP, maybe that is SP, because body is really, really still, numb, stiff, if I want to move, I have to make great effort, and if I do, my body still feels very heavy the first seconds. Maybe the tingling feeling is the start of the separation process (or the transition from focus in real body to dream body), it is not yet very clear to me. But that is the purpose of a training, isn’t, repeating the same thing over and over, until you get the hang of it.
I will just sleep normally the next night, and then try again, maybe try to make my own mp3 file by then. Or if somebody of you has a very good mp3 that seems to fit in this training plan, you are very welcome to share it.
And for SP, i have encountered it many times, and i nearly don’t see it pass. I know it’s SP but i don’t feel really paralyzed, and i don’t get hallucinations. It’s different depending on people
Welcome Sammy, keep us updated.
And yes, probably SP will be different for different people.
Although it was my rest night, I couldn’t resist to keep my awareness on in the night a little, but I realised that it kept me from quality sleep, and it was like this until I saw on my clock I still had an hour of sleep. Then decided to stop with trying to keep up my awareness (yes I tied it all night long, it was always somewhere in the back of my head, I slept some moments, for sure, but rather tense, no dream recall). So I turned off my awareness and just tried to fall asleep, I read yesterday in an old dream journal of me, I used to do following technique: counting backwards from 100, and imaging going down steps at the same time, not to focused, just enough focus to count and step. This had very nice effect on me, I started falling asleep, I reached SP, the strong, vibrant type of SP, where my whole body was shaking. But I got little to excited, and off it went. I tried again, came close to SP again, but not close enough before my wake up alarm went off.
But I am happy, I guess I found a good way for me to be able to fall asleep again. Tonight I will try this together with WBTB and timer mp3.
I should join, I’ll say more later once I can give it a good read. But you know, I’m in.
Ok, another night of practise; now with my own created mp3:
beep at 20 min, 18 min, 16 min, and again 20-18-16, and again, …
Got up at 4, out of bed, not to long and then back to sleep, with mp3.
I could fall rather easy to sleep again with the following technique:
counting from 100 to 0, at some points I got lost in counting or began to count wrong, but that’s cool, a sign that I got very close to sleep. If I reached 0 before I was asleep I continued walking down steps. This often brought me back to sleep before the next beep, and on the beep I just stayed there, eyes closed.
I begin to believe that most of the time when I woke up from the beep, I was in SP, maybe not full, but certainly to a degree. Body very stiff, not easy to move, possible with great will power, and when i did it broke the SP. Anyhow, I am convinced now that I have no problem putting my body to sleep, the problem is doing something with this SP.
The first two hours I always tried to fall more asleep, because nothing happened in that SP, I then fell asleep completely (also with my mind), until the next beep, and then again in the (semi?) SP. So I am little stuck here.
The last hour my body stayed asleep, but my mind didn’t fall asleep anymore, so I heard every beep with mind awake and it was rather annoying (the beeps). So, I am going to adjust my mp3 that after two hours it stops beeping.
In the last hours I started experimenting with trying to get from physical body to dream body. Very difficult for me. I can’t get loose from my physical body.
-imagining rolling over: didn’t get realistic
-imagining falling through the bed: was better, slight sense of another body, but not enough to shift my attention completely on it, after some time, physical body won again.
-imagining myself in another room: didn’t get realistic, gave to much tension for my mind
-daydreaming: letting my mind go completely loose, not paying any attention: was good, static dream images began to show, very vaguely, sometimes tingling feeling, but after some time, physical body took over again.
I did all this until my wakup alarm rang.
I am stuck. I need some advice. How to shift from SP to a dreambody?
I read many people can shift very easily to dream body once in SP, not for me. I can’t break loose. I am stuck in my physical body.
I learned that the signs I was waiting for I thought to be the signs of SP (tingling feeling, rush of energy, weird sounds, …) are actually not SP related but related to the transition form physical to dream. So that’s cool, I learn new things, begin to understand myself better in these states close to sleep. Maybe I should explore little more like this, before wanting to go further.
Ok, so I’ll start to get more familiar with SP. One of the two times I got lucid (and they both sucked, but whatever) I got there from SP. I naturally wake up all the time, but I move around, open my eyes, etc. It’s going to take a bit to grow out of those habits.
Cool, you wake up a lot, then you definitely have to change your habit of moving and opening your eyes. This together with knowing SP very well will probably give you a lot of chances to become lucid.
The best way to change this habbit, is to have lot of waking ups, so I hope you use the mp3, because this does just that.
From me no news at the moment. I am suffering from a cold, so I need my sleep now
I’d love to join in on this experience! I also would like to further my learning and experience into SP and WILD attempts. I was wodering, can I get the updated mp3 file that you use now? I’ll also be posting my attempts in the morning on this thread.
Nice you join in. Welcome.
Offcourse you can have the mp3 I made myself, here it is:
it has no copyright as it is made by myself and opensource
Good-luck and keep us updated, even if it is a real disaster , maybe we can help each other.
BTW concerning the mp3, I tried it like this:
I only use 3 times double beep (that is more then enough for me, I wake up very easily).
There are beeps first after 20 minutes, then after 18, then after 16, then again after 20, 18, 16, … It lasts almost 2 hours. If you need more, you can repeat it, and then it goes on forever
If somebody likes another setting, please let me know, it is easy to make, so I don’t bother.
Thanks man! I’ll totally keep you updated! I’ll try my attempt tonight and reply to you guys in the morning. Cheers
My cold keeps me in the hold. So not much to update.
I sleep alot now, I just have to, feel miserabele. I am not using the mp3 now, breaks my sleep to much, and is not healthy for me at the moment, but I continue to observe my sleep. Everytime I wake up (and I do this alot, spontanesously now), I try to stay still, wacht for any dreamrecall and try to be aware for a little then let myself fall asleep again, without focussing on anything (I need my sleep, remember).
I discovered that I can fall asleep more easily nowerdays, but dreamrecall is very low. Only late in the morning dreams are recalled.
I learned the folowing:
The other nights I kept my awareness to high, this keeps me from falling back to sleep. This night I just kept awareness for a while and then no awareness at all, this allowed me to fall back asleep, but without awareness, no awareness of SP offcourse, so I need to find the wright balance between making myself falling asleep and keeping some awareness.
The other nights I had few dreamrecall, this morning I had better dreamrecall, I guess in the end my conciousness got more awake, so it could register the dreams better. I think I have to wake up my conciousness more anyhow during my WBTB sessions. I kept the WBTB very short, because difficulty of falling back asleep afterwards.
I think I understand now that concoiusness has to be activated enough when you wake up and do WBTB to have more dream awareness, and I guess dreams and SP are interlinked, so I should stay up a little longer during my WBTB.
I know you can read all about these things, but I am learning more from my own experience now and that is more valuable (to me). That’s why I like this training, it sets my mind on experimenting and learning gradually, in stead of trying out all kinds of techniques and getting discouraged soon. I hope the others who joined have a similar experience about this training.
Feeling better, so resumed the practise this night.
Got up at 5, back to bed at 6, too long i guess, cause I couldn’t fall asleep anymore. Heard all the beeps wide awake. Frustrating. After 1 hour I gave up, stopped the mp3 and tried to fall asleep normally, no way. More frustrated.
Then I decided to bring my mind in the body numb, mind clear state, better then being frustrated not able to sleep, and that was a good idea. I get there very easily. Normally feel stuck there, my mind is to clear to be able to fall asleep, so no dreams and no chance for lucidity, but very relaxing and inspiring, thus better than being frustrated. This turned out in a very nice experience.
Because I was not focused anymore on falling asleep or getting in SP, I could simply enjoy it. I experimented: blocking the feeling of body out, blocking all thoughts out, dissolving, staying in the empty space, … Also tried to lift up my mind to higher states, and it worked, felt very good, kind of high . After awhile, when I was very at ease, tried to get closer to sleep anyhow, and yes it seemed to work. Got very close to sleep to the point strange feelings began to arise, but my mind was so clear that my attention jumped on it immediately, so these feelings left me as soon as they raised, but that was no problem, was just nice to hover around sleep.
I stayed in this state until external noises began to disturb me to much, then decided to try to move, although i thought it would be very difficult, could move anyhow, so no, was not SP, but it was very interesting anyhow. And I woke up full of energy
Conclusion: I will not try so hard anymore to fall asleep, but get more used to this state, that seems to have more possibilities then I thought. I have a feeling that, except from having very meditative like experiences, i will eventually be able to use it to become lucid. But maybe I am just fooling myself and will keep myself from sleeping, from dreaming and thus from getting lucid. Any advice is welcome.
I am curious what experiences others are having with this mp3 or other techniques to get close to sleep an SP while still awake or waking up. Please share your experiences. I am getting bored of my own postings, lol.
I am happy to announce that I am being rewarded for my practise this morning: got my first LD since I started this practice and it was a real nice LD. My subconscious mind gave me a sign that I am not fooling myself, but am on the right track.
This is what happened:
I spontaneously woke up at 3 this night. In my bed started reading in my dreamjournal (on my smart-phone), got up (short toilet stop) and then went back to bed, trying to get to the body numb state. I couldn’t get there, my left leg was tense, it hurt, couldn’t relax it, so decided just to fall asleep, no way, got my mind to clear already. Relaxing not working, and mind to clear, damn. I had a big strugle again with myself. Lost a valuable hour or two of sleep like this. Finally I got up frustrated, did some stretching, stretching my whole body to the ceiling (hands in the air) and then dropping down folding, with my head towards my knees and arms hanging loose, did this until I began to yawn allot. And then I was ready to go back to sleep. I could get in the numb state easily now, stayed there for a few minutes, then from there softly let me slip into sleep. It worked. Some vague dream images began to form, I got involved in them forgetting I was falling asleep, until I suddenly remembered “hey, wasn’t I falling asleep? So what is this… dream images?”, but it was very fragile, so I had to stay very calm and focus my awareness on the vague dream, I could almost feel my sleeping body, but tried to block that from my awareness. My dreambody was sitting in a chair in front of a computer so, I tried to get completely involved in this dreambody, trying to move it. This happened with the shaking, and a feeling like tearing myself out into this body, but there I was… fully Lucid in my dream.
I am not going to describe the whole dream but it was superb. First was in a building, could fly through a wall, ended up outside somewhere not so interesting, but could climb, fly, jump up, higher and higher, until I had a spectacular view on a mountain lake, with a beautiful city at the other side of the lake and a amazing backdrop of snowy mountains.
Then I did something what I would never have done before: I sat down enjoyed the view for awhile then started to meditate, knowing that probably this would wake me up in my sleep body again. But I was curious what would happen, if I would be in SP or not. And I was confident: “from now on I will have regular lucid dreams, so I don’t have to do all I desperately wanted to do for so long in a Lucid dream in this dream, there will be more, relax”.
So, I woke up, and was able to stay perfectly still and keeping my eyes shut. I was in the numb body state, not SP, I didn’t move but had the feeling I could move (with some effort). I was little surprised. Normally you are in SP when you dream, and right after you wake up from a dream, especially if you do this consciously. So or I have very light SP and this numb state is the same or very close to SP, or I was dreaming in non-REM. If my SP is the numb state, then I have been looking much to far. I don’t know yet for sure, but I have a feeling I will find out more about it if I continue this way.
I stayed in the numb state for another 15 to 30 minutes I guess, enjoyed the after feeling in this state (normally after a LD I get up and make a dance of joy, not this time, I just stayed calm, perfectly still, eyes closed and body completely relaxed), this was nice. Tried to fall back asleep and maybe have another LD, but there was my wake up alarm. End of story (for tonight).
Congrats man! Sorry I haven’t been posting, I have had a lot to do over this weekend getting ready for Thanksgiving! I will definitely post tomorrow because I don’t have any activities or things going on tonight or tomorrow morning. Until then good luck again tonight man! Also, question: Did you lay in bed trying to keep focus on an anchor while you were falling asleep to realize you left reality?