I admit I got lost while trying to read.
I just want to point that I consider awareness as related to consciousness in my scales, while clarity is not.
for: lumessence
that is why i said that this state is a gate, since you are not in either dreams (waking/sleeping) or planes for that matter, it would seem you are thrown out, significantly more open to, lets say… other dimensions.
lets talk about what you described. its needles to say that i take it that after smothering that being you kept being awake and didnt find yourself waking up yes?
deflation of a ball, it does remind the resistance of energy. when you compress energy, between your hands for example, it starts to feel as if there is a magnetic resistance, much like driving two magnets of similar pulls to each other. if its built high enough it could fit your description.
the thing is, did you ever see what it was? did it ever do anything harmful to you?
usually since its an uncommon phenomenon, unsettling in a way, our survival instinct jumps right up, labeling it negative, but you should try considering this as another part of you since that is what it is most of the times.
many times when i had my “encounters” i thought its something bad since its energetic feeling on my body was very uncomfortable, but, im not sure how to explain it, its the way it needs to be, just because its uncomfortable does not mean it is done for a negative end.
all im saying it test it out, play with it.
tell me more about what is “false lucid dreaming” please ^^
(completely didnt notice page 2)
regarding this
that is what im trying to point out to you. we all have dreams in none REM sleep, they might be shorter, or less detailed but we do have them and you dont need to be a grand master to be conscious of them.
try waking yourself up after a few minuets of sleep, or before the REM cycle begins, and youll see that you remember some dreams.
so when you mean a painful process you mean mentally? the waiting?
well, im telling you, hear me out, please believe me, i have no reason to lie.
i understand what your saying, and like i said i experienced what your talking about and used to do it myself.
but more than this. you ARE right, there is a process of transition from waking to sleeping, and we go about it every night, but you dont have to loose consciousness to enter the dream, you can have the whole experience, you can be aware of the process, be awake when it happens, that is what it mean to preform a Wake Induced Lucid Dream.
youve reached a boundary, cross it.
do you have a certain position that is hard or near impossible for you to fall asleep in?
i understand that you know about the “REM logic”, the cycles, and its great that you can use it for your advantage, but im trying to open your mind here about this, reality is much more malleable than this, rules can be bent, changed, dont take this as a concrete fact.
dragon ball, you might also be right about me experiencing this a little different, i think as part of the process from waking to sleeping i might see a stage others wont because of my energy sight.
lumessence sounds like you have a very good grip on this.
the hypnagogic stage is a part of coming into adn the formation of the in-between state.
dragon ball. you said you think there is more to dreams, what do you think that is?
I know I did when I had the time for it but now when I’m no student any more, when I work I have to manage my night/sleeping time better, that’s why I strictly use sleep cycles for making this work, hell, if I have a lucid dream in a NREM sleep I’m not gonna be sad about it! 
I was referring this to dreamers that have a hard time doing specifically WILD because many WILD tutorials say that you should move, you should swallow, scratch and doing any kind of movement which is bull by my opinion and when somebody is doing this or to better said not doing anything just laying like dead in a bed for an hour or even longer that I consider to be a painful experience.
That’s what I was doing, trying to cross the boundary but I couldn’t achieve that. I couldn’t cross it the way I was doing WILD.
Here’s how I do WILD but in a very few lines, just major part I will mention.
I wake up naturally at some time, doesn’t matter after how much sleep. Then I would do some kind of mindful meditation, that puts me in some kind of trance so to say and makes me very aware of myself and more importantly my own thoughts, that’s how I can follow when hypnagogia appears. After some time playing with/in hypnagogia I would start to experience body sensations I mention in previous post. Now this part is where I would stuck. From this point on I would not enter dream nor become lucid in one. What would happened I would just stayed awake as I was before starting all this and then one day as I was doing this and as I came to this exact point I decided to let go, to fall asleep, I let myself fall asleep and next second, not even a second I was in a dream lucid and by the full meaning lucid, aware, conscious…
So you see, that’s how I crossed my boundary, because I don’t know how else to enter the dream consciously, because even though theoretically I lost consciousness which would mean I fall asleep and didn’t make conscious transition from waking to dreaming state I still consider it to be a conscious transition because I let myself consciously to fall asleep, big difference from just falling asleep somewhere on the line of doing this whole process.
I consider that crossing the boundary because I have lucid dream after that point. I simply don’t know how else to do it…
How you do it?!
It’s just a feeling, you know, nothing concrete. I experimented with a lot of things, non lucid dreams, lucid dreams, AP, OBE and all of those things that are labeled by some name out there and it’s great. It’s great because all those things have on thing in common by my opinion and that is they all to some level feel like dreams, like the dreams are the base of everything else. And after having dreams, crazy, beautiful, meaningful dreams which left me speechless in this waking reality I can say that there is more to dreams then we are thought by the community we live in.
It’s been multiple things. I’ve felt what it was without seeing it, but there was one time I saw one form of it. Sometimes it’s a dog, that is just sniffing around, and at times i’ve tried to simply ignore it, it has bit me in the ear.
There was one time that I did not hide under my blanket (like i usually do,) just to see what happened. It started creeping up on my bed, and i opened my eyes to see a what looked like a Caterpie pokemon staring at me in the face. It was about 9ish inches tall. It startled me and i did indeed act out and crush it under my fist, of which it resulted in a strange wheezing/sigh cry before fading completely.
After gathering myself, i felt a little guilty of doing that, and was curious what it was. But in those startling moments we do tend to simply act out.
For the compressed energy feelings you were talking about, the ball i’ve crushed under my blanket was not just a light feeling. The ball was literally about a foot in diameter. Much too large to simply be misjudged perceptions in feeling… Perceptions cannot accomodate that amount of physical existence. If someone has a hallucination of for example, a rock the size of a basketball, and take a broomstick and swing at it, the broom is not going to stop. It will go through the hallucination. In this case however, the broomstick struck an object. You cannot emulate that through perception. Something was physically there holding up the blanket, and resisting my pressing the blanket down on it.
I fully understand what hypnogogia is. And yes, this would be that phase. The only difference is that rather than typical hypnogogia which is chaos of random thoughts and images twisting and melding resulting in nonsense, this is very controlled, flowing, and solidified.
When i talk about the “images that appear”, I am not talking about what you may think it to be. I am talking about being fully conscious, and not even tired. Not even beginning the sleeping state. I simply lie down, close my eyes, and focus on these images. (These images have become distant and not so rapid/apparent in the last year or two though.) This is actually tied to my “disorder”, which afflicts me with waking dreams. Those waking dreams however have faded, and so too have these images.
I however did attempt to do this again the other night and was somewhat successful. It occurred to me that it’s actually a very easy way for me to get to sleep, in which I’ve always had difficulty with. I do not need to try to sleep, more so just try to leap into these images, and it results in a short term “lucid” dream, then fades into normal sleep.
Again. these images are not aspects of hypnogogia, they are sourced from something else entirely. Hypnogogia and this may come from similar brain functions though.
youre really close dragon ball! i can see what you mean, when you do find yourself in a lucid dream after wards it still like finding yourself in any dream in the way that you dont know how it started. you do the meditation, go to sleep, find yourself in the “middle” of a dream but lucid, yes?
the real trick really about going through with the WILD all the way is to keep yourself aware through out the process, you can do that through sheer Will, be very persistent as to going through with it, perhaps sleeping on the sliver line in the in between constantly waking and sleeping one after the other, going in and out of dreams until you find yourself experiencing the full process.
in short, what they do in the sleep yoga technique i use is you keep yourself concentrated on a visualization, a sphere, and this is done very smoothly, no hard concentration, the body should be very relaxed, as you feel your body getting more and more relaxed you continuously change the color of the sphere according to the relaxed phases your body is going through as it falls asleep.
by keeping your awareness intact you get to go through the process.
evidently you can just hold a picture in your mind, and if you can keep focus on that while letting your body rest, you should find yourself in that place in the dream.
WILD is not something im pro at yet and you can find more about it in a book i suggested in a topic someone posted about dream related books.
you can OBE/AP?
lumessence, usually when i face something like the “beings” you describe i find myself in somewhat of a SP, if i move too much they tend to fade, is that the same with your experiences?
im pretty sure i know what you mean about the images, i can do that too, they are pretty vivid and i can see them very soon, no need for my body to get relaxed.
No SP involved. I have only had one SP experience in my life, and there were no entities present during it. Not even fear. It just felt very strange at the time.
You can do what I do? You can be walking down the street, close your eyes for 5 seconds and during those 5 seconds have seen 25 images, then open your eyes like nothing happened? During those times, i could probably put myself to sleep standing on the sidewalk if I tried to, but it would require a bit more focus to do so.
The images I am talking about is similar to immidiately opening an image album, and rapidly flipping through the book, only getting a view of each image for a fraction of a second before it moves onto the next. It was like my vision is being thrown across the universe into random locations with intense speed, but I’m not actually moving or anything. They were just literally flashes of images. I did not have to try, or focus, or relax for this to happen. There was nothing regarding any sleep involved either. This just simply happened to me.
Most people just see strange morphing shapes, like circular fractals. At times i would only get those too. That is not what i experienced. My symptoms of my disorder have faded greatly in the last 2 years so I don’t get this experience as vividly and immidiately as I used to. I just tried again, and I was unable to see them, except for a very split moment when they started, but unfortunately i got a little excited about it and it brought me out of it within a second…
nope, i dont have that, what i mean is similar to imagination only a lot cleared in sight from an average imagination (if imagination could be gouged at all).
also im not willingly imagining (although i could) a scenario more like watching it unfold and rolling with it.
why do you keep calling whatever it is thats happening to you a “disorder” ?
where would you put ‘clarity’ in all this Tggtt?
Yes. That is exactly what my “imagination” is. A “daydream” so real and vivid and self-flowing. Like watching/living a movie, rather than actively coming up with things. If you have that, you’d be the second person in the world I’ve encountered to have that. (the other was not on here, and it is certainly not unique). I’ve tacked it up to something called “Fantasy Prone Personality Disorder” and “Maladaptive Daydreaming”. MD would probably be more specific to your own case though.
Though you don’t seem to have the image flashes like I do when i close my eyes. I’m not calling that specifically a disorder. I just associate it as an aspect/symptom of a difficulty I have, but they meld so much I can’t really tell what is the reason and what is the affect. I’ve been diagnosed with Schizoaffective disorder, though not truly just because of this. There are so many different things regarding it that it’s hard to classify specifically. I’m sure that’s going to be confusing, so don’t worry about it. You can ignore it.
Regardless… It is indeed a combination of different things that gives me strange dream features. That what you said is one of them, though I wonder if I had it far stronger than you. I had it to the point that it overtook my senses and I completely spaced out this world nearly 24/7. It took effort from other people to maintain my awareness of the world around me. I was thought to have ADD so many times, but that proved false. I simply just couldn’t keep awareness due to my brain prioritizing these “daydreams”. It was bad enough that going to school wasn’t even working, and wandering off getting myself lost was a daily routine if I wasn’t careful. There would also be an entire day I wouldn’t do anything at all, not even eat. I wasn’t catatonic, but life around me had switched places with a common spacing out daydream. That being that life because the dream while these daydreams became my reality. Luckily though there was no real confusion or crossover. Meaning I didn’t have physical hallucinations, thinking my family were aliens or anything, but it was extremely difficult maintaining awareness.
you do have it much stronger according to the way you talk about it, it sounds that the major differences between us is firstly, you probably see it much more vivid then i do, secondly you have less control over it.
i do it willingly before going to sleep sometimes, it appears when i want it. its nice, see the blue skies, fly around a valley and have it more realistic then everyday imagination yet a lot less, and still not in the same level as waking life or the faintest dream. i honestly dont practice it enough to see it much clearer.
i dont get this when i just close my eyes for a few seconds. it seems to me what you need to work on is stabilizing your awareness where you want to be.
please dont label this as something bad, i understand it might have confused you or turned your life in a certain way, but really it is an ability, one you need to understand more.
take it as a challenge, go in it willingly, or if you catch yourself drifting off, and then by choice pull yourself back 100% to the waking. dont give “its hard”, its just a self excuse, enjoy the challenge you have presented yourself, by doing that going about it will be much easier and fun.
to get spiritual.
it would sound you allowed yourself the opportunity of greater access. an opportunity most dont get, cherish it. we are all really infinite beings and you gave yourself the opportunity to experience some of that.
about the way you see. I have a friend which describe to me something similar. she doesnt space out but she told me everything she hears or thoughts she has is instantly visualized very fast and vividly through her mind. she thought everyone was like that until she saw this movie describing a person with autisim.
she said the movie captures very clearly the way she sees or very similar at least. you might want to check it out, i havent seen it myself, the name of the movie is “Temple Grandin”
I most certainly don’t see it personally as “bad”. I’ve had this since birth, and like your friend, I was a little ignorant about it not being that common. Though I never actually considered how the world looked through other’s eyes until my early teenage years when everything was going out of whack with everyone around me. No one understood any of it. As a result it was a very trying life. I’ve spent all my teenage years fighting between trying to exist as what is normal to me, against the norms of this world.
1-2 years ago it began to fade, and it doesn’t happen as frequently. But what’s also faded is most of my spiritual and seemingly supernatural experiences. I miss them dearly, and I truely worry sometimes that I’ve lost something wonderful altogether.
I used to have senses. I could feel like there were ephemerel presences around, and even one that frequented my room as a type of guardian angel. I’ve never really spoken about her specifically to anyone though. Aside from her though, there were others. Like Loah, which a lot of people on this site know. She’s all but faded aswell with it all, and it frightens me. They were very real entities, from very real worlds that I seemed to have picked up from my visits to them.
I don’t get much any of that anymore, and I feel as though I’ve fallen lower than your current ability to do those kinds of things. That being, that there are times where I feel like I have to force those daydreams. But then again… It’s become similar to my dream world in that regards. I feel as though often times without me controlling them myself, they do nothing. It’s as if whatever “imagination” was there has surrendered absolute control to me… Or… perhaps I’ve lost the connections I once had, and am just simply facing the “norm” of what people experience.
Thankyou for telling me of that film. I will certainly look into it.