In a FLD, where I tried to kill a sea monster that was healing quickly and growing every second, I flew high in the air and just focused on burning every cell of the monster.
At that moment I experienced myself being in two places at once. The other place wasn’t waking life, it was another dream. And that dream was empty, there was only me surrounded by darkness. In that dream I frantically moved my hands. I do that in waking life too, I’m not 100% sure why I feel the need to do it but it helps me think and channel emotions. So in the dream I used this to channel anger into the other dream. This made the flames grow and burn the monster.
I think that’s one of the few times I have experienced anything resembling the layers you describe. To me, the experience felt very significant.
Many times I have become aware, from a waking state, that a dream is already happening in the background of my mind. It’s like there’s no beginning or end to dreaming.
The closest experience I can say I’ve had to a simultaneous dream are dreams in which I’m watching the dream scene with a mentor. The mentor talks to me, and points out things about the dream as it unfolds. In those situations, there are, in fact, two lines of action: there’s what’s happening in the movie screen-like experience of the dream and what’s happening “in the theatre.” I never see a theatre. Nor do I see the mentor, or even myself. I’m simply a disembodied watcher that’s not directly involved or affected by the dream.
I guess, in a way, you could say all third-person dreams are somewhat simultaneous.
@flowofmysoul: By the way, thanks for sharing this. Your insights are needed. Not many lucid dreamers speak of simultaneous dreams.
My “Mentor” dreams are usually non-lucid or sub-lucid. By “sub-lucid” I mean that I’m dimly aware of dreaming, but don’t take any action—I just watch and listen.
I didn’t see this before, but understanding the intelligence behind dreams is probably crucial to grasping their simultaneity.
…I’m reminded now of a lucid dream from many years ago in which a voice spoke to me in the middle of the dream, making me lucid. I had been, in the dream, climbing a mountain through fog and was getting anxious and worried, wondering if I’d ever reach the top. The voice said, “The mountain is more important than the peak.” The voice spoke right to me, explaining the dream itself, offering me a kind of advice.
Some people, like Robert Waggoner, call this voice the Awareness Behind the Dream; some simply call it the subconscious. Whatever you name it, in that case, it was an example of an intelligence working parallel to my dream ego. The intelligence behind the voice understood the dream more deeply than “I” did until it explained it to me. The explanation sparked lucidity, but whether or not the voice intended to make me lucid I can’t say.
I would say that my lucidity was a natural byproduct of me being led to think of the situation as meaningful imagery. So, if we assume that the voice was my own consciousness, then some part of me was lucid before my avatar in the dream was lucid. At least, some part of me knew that what I was experiencing was just mental imagery and not real (which I would call lucidity).
This corresponds with what you’re saying, flowofmysoul, that we can indeed be lucid on one level but not another within the dreaming process.
I understand you regarding sub-lucid, I had same kind of dreams when I wanted to quit LDing and I wanted to have non-lucid dreams. I never succeeded in having non-lucid, but I found a way to make it easier for me. I also observed dream like a movie, always knowing that I can control it, but would usually not intrude.
Here is my description of it - Observer Lucid Dreams.
[My Dream Types.)
I also had similar situation where voice was talking to me, I had them very often. In my LD’s, sometimes I would go to some distant place where I could relax, sometimes I was sitting and listening to that voice, he was telling me some interesting ideas. Absolutely random, voice talked about everything.
Also sometimes this voice commented my ongoing LD, giving some ideas on why some events are happening in this dream, like doing a brief introduction.
I think in this case we are reading our own subconscious mind.
I have also heard a voice giving me advice. In a FLD I heard my own voice telling me to calm down or I would wake up, in a ND I heard another voice, a deeper male voice, telling me to “Dive or you’ll die to those deadly spores”. It hasn’t made me lucid yet though.
That just sounds rude to me. We were talking about multi-layered dreams and hearing guiding voices but you feel the need to order me to have more lucid dreams? Like I’m not good enough to talk with you about this subject until all my dreams are lucid dreams? You felt the need to tell me about reality checking. That almost felt like an insult too.
Ironically, I posted the other day regarding this… In a thread that is near to this one. Estremely-long lucid dreams
Why I posted it there, I’m not entirely sure. I hadn’t seen this thread, which is why I find it ironic… It had just come to mind when reading that thread that I seem to have strange occurrences in my dreams that do not seem to add up to what people make mention of.
This is something that I don’t often talk about, but this multi-layering is something I experience consciously quite often.
I always identified them as “alternatives” or parallels.
Often when I’m dreaming, even when lucid, I witness more than one affect or result, by something I consider doing. In some of those alternatives, I carry out that action, wilst other’s, even sometimes the current “layer” i’m on, I don’t.
Multiple layer’s, i’ve never actually identified them as. Along with the examples of seperate experiences at the same time, I’ve also had fluid completely different dreams. I’ve always called these Parallel Dreams…
This is - as you mentioned, very rough on recall. My recall during sleep is exceptional in my view, and as posted in my response in that thread, this is one of the things I notice when I’m asleep.
As for “entering another layer” in regards to a lucid dream, my lucid dreams have the same behavior as explained above. I am still dedicated to one universal, but I still experience - deeper inside - the alternates/parallels.
This is the cause of my difficulty summoning objects, and sometimes other ability attempts when consciously aware of this. Sometimes it is manifested on a separate level, and exists on the dream parallel that I’m not focused on. Solidifying that object to the applicable presence is still rather difficult for me.
I’d always considered that explaining this would be rather difficult, as others may not understand what I’m talking about, so I’ve never really brought it up. I’m hard of words and explanations, but I imagine with what you’ve said - that it can now be understood.
–Additonally
As for voices, and guidance, sometimes I say “Something is telling me”, I’m referring to a deeper feeling, or intuition.
I do occasionally hear a vocalized voice, but it is usually an observational commentary, rather than suggestions. Sometimes I vocallize a response towards that voice, but it is usually a clarification, or another comment on theirs.
When I wake up after this occurrs, I find it fascinating, and try to make it a goal to look more into this, simply because while I’m inside the dream, it just seems completely normal and nothing seems out of place. This typically only hear this voice when I’m lucid though. And it is very rare.
–
After considering this mention, I decided to give an example and write it in my DJ for last night’s dream. here. Dreamers Unite
Had a LD where I appeared doing the same thing I did just before I went to sleep, realized that it came from one of my memories and switched to a new dream that was ongoing already. I tried to experience both dreams at the same time. I felt from one dream to another, after some time I managed to stay in between. I would be glad to describe how that felt and looked like, but it is really hard to put in words. This would sound odd, it looked like I was there and wasn’t there at the same time. I had a pretty good recall of both dreams, also I had recall of 3rd dream that was there, but I did not play much attention to it. And it felt pretty tiring, had to comprehend both dreams at once.
When I was just in between those two dreams I opened my eyes, I did not have have intention to wake up, but I opened my eyes because I could not hold between two dreams anymore. It was unintentional wake up. I opened my eyes, but I was still there dreaming in my mind, I tried to move but I could not. I realized that something went wrong and I got into SP. The same moment I decided not to wait until SP goes off and I forced my self to move. I tried really hard, it felt like I was stuck in my bed and it took lots of effort to move my head up.
When I started to move, I had a very strange feeling like I am inside a centrifuge, not my body, but my mind and my head is inside a centrifuge. A Centrifuge and a pendulum working at the same time, I felt like something is rotating really fast and from time to time I had those short pushes to random side. If you ever hold a working hard drive from a computer in your hand and then you would move it and feel like it is rotating inside and you feel like it jumps to right and left when you move it. The more effort I made to move the faster it started to spin, finally I gathered all my efforts together and used my hands(elbows) to pull my self up and at the same time I pull my head with my body. I came to a sitting position but that felt like a long journey, I was shaking from right to left and went back to my bed because I thought I will loose my conscious, I felt very dizzy.
Went back to lying position and was thinking about it for some time, was a pretty fun experience. Never forced my self out of SP before
I would like to know if anyone had similar experience when woke up or tried to move during SP.
I must be different because I only have 1 dream running at a time, conscious or not. There is no need for more than 1 dream because it can chop and change however it likes, if it fades then a new one begins. What you said makes sense I just don’t feel like it applies to me.
This is an awesome observation and a great insight at the subconcious workings of our mind. Just wow! Even in our waking moments we have multiple thoughts on our mind, memories, situations we are re-playing; it only makes sense that are dreams are doing the same.
I experience this all the time in my dreams just by switching from place to place and situation to situation. It all kind of happens without me noticing, it would be crazy to be aware of the switch as it’s happening and be able to control the switch.
On a different note, you seriously only have lucid dreams? Or you only recall lucid ones? It seems like psyche wouldn’t be able to take that constant conciousness. I’m no science expert, don’t get me wrong, I’m just throwing together a personal theory here because I’ve never heard of someone who only lucid dreams. I just know that when I am lucid dreaming, it takes some mental effort, a constant awareness. I definitely don’t feel as relaxed during or upon waking, but that’s just me. I feel almost edge-y and halfway between asleep and awake, not the deep relaxing sleep of stupid dreams where I’m buying a vacuum cleaner that’s actually a banana and floating around in pointless colors. If you never just let your brain relax I can imagine some exhaustion eventually!
It’s pretty remarkable isn’t it? flowofmysoul is like a lucid dreaming savant lol. On another note, I have come across one other person who only LDs, many years ago in highschool. According to him, every night he started out in a completley black void space, and then consciously created the dream from there.
To be honest, even though I’d love to have more LDs, I didn’t envy his constant god-mode. Half of the fun for me is the surprise and delight of new and wonderful environments that I haven’t come up with consciously, and interfacing with those. I wouldn’t want to always have total control over the Dreaming. I still want to have better Lucid Dreams though.
Something I’ve noticed recently, and it may or may not be related to the heavy dreaming, but I’ve been waking up with a lot more headaches after lots of dreaming. Does anyone else have that issue? It may just be stress related.
I’ve never come across anything like this before, but after reading this thread, I can see how it could be true. Especially given this –
…
I’m not sure I’ve ever experienced layered dreams with such clarity that you’ve described. However, there does seem to be some similarity in the In-Between space – that space when you’re not quite asleep and not quite awake. Sometimes I just slip in and then slightly slip out. When I slightly slip out, I suddenly become aware that I had been sort of having an auto-pilot dream or thought process, while neither being fully asleep or fully awake. Usually by the time I realize this, the contents of what was just happening begin to rapidly fade. (Which is sometimes super annoying if the contents happened to be something really amazing.)
I’m wondering if there is a thread on here that addresses the mechanisms of forgetting when waking?
Anyway, that is an experience that sort of reaches towards what you are getting at, because one is still awake, while also having this auto-pilot experience just slightly underneath the conscious level. It doesn’t then seem far-fetched to suggest that this is always happening and we may or may not be aware of it.
Another experience that could be relevant is a dream I had after I had been contemplating the idea of bi-location in waking life. I received all sorts of insights about that, during that time. The most potent source of insight being a dream in which I was dreaming two dreams at once. But it was entirely chaotic for me. And in the one dream, I started to become distressed, being unable to really hold to that dream reality. It was a little like losing my mind. The two started to warp and blend and I just couldn’t keep it together. In the dream I ended up just holding on to my partner’s arm to try to ground some point of reference.
If anyone is interested, I’ll make a separate post about that dream and what I learned about bi-locating.
One of the take-aways was that, my mind needs to be prepared and strengthened to be able to hold multiple frames of reference like that, at once, otherwise I risk damaging it. I’m not saying its not possible for others, though. Just, my guidance was like, hey slow down there Tiger, try crawling before running. LOL.
so maybe, in regards to layered dreaming, I’m just not well practiced enough to stretch my awareness in that way, even if the dreams are actually already happening.
the coolest thing that strikes me about this is, it really reminds me of the ideas of “higher self/inner self/oversoul.” In some schools of thought, the Oversoul is the part of us that holds (maybe you can even say, dreams) all the potential iterations of the reality and timelines of the Self/Selves. So, flowofmysoul, (your name is ironically suited to this), it is like you are tuning into this greater awareness.
(( If you want a book recommendation, I think you’d really enjoy the book called The Education of Oversoul Seven, by Jane Roberts))
Voices,
I’m certain that some of the occurrences of a guiding voice come from this larger self. However, I’ve also had strange occurrences of voices that were just weird and threw me off, that occurred like someone was flipping the dial of a radio to different channels. sometimes the voices are aware of me and talking directly to me, other times they are just going on about something random not related to me.
Sometimes I have this experience, and I’ve heard it is a common one, of hearing these random voices saying arbitrary things, while falling into sleep. Apparently that kind of voice-hearing is also a symptom of sleep deprivation in it’s more advanced stages, but hearing them doesn’t necessarily mean you’re suffering from sleep deprivation. It can also just happen.
