are you serious? these images are only products of our mind - do whatever you want to them. sure, you could get into the metaphysical aspects of reality, but there doesnt seem to be a need to. the point is that theyre your dreams and you can do anything you want in your dreams. if you personally want to preserve your morals into your unconscious state, thats fine, but there is nothing wrong with a little fun.
Maybe they are actual people or were.Besides acting mean in dreams only reflects your real attitude IRL.Maybe you could get a bad habit of being mean to people who knows.There have been plenty of kids playing shooting games and then shooting people IRL.
In reality there is a lot more evidence that supports the idea that if you can express your anger in safe situations, and then you are less likely to go out and hurt someone.
In Japan, some companies have a room with sand bags with pictures of the different bosses on them. The employs can go into the room, and beat on the sand bags when they have problems with their boss. Then they can go back to work and are no longer so angry.
I think that it would be better to mistreat DC’s then to mistreat people IRL. I also think that it would be even better to not have ( or want ) to mistreat anyone. In my dreams I do treat DC’s just like real people, even when I am lucid. Last time I got lucid, I explained to a DC that I no longer had time to talk, and excused myself before I ran off and started flying.
don
I think some are people that are in dreams that will forget it for sure. Like in rem time for less than a second you are really someone elses dream bitch lol… im tired
Most of you are ok with killing ‘demons’ and the like, but not DCs. This is a little weird isnt it? Both are creations of the subconscious, they just have different shells.
My thoughts on this are rather medical and scientific - along the lines of “it’s all electrical signals in your brain”. Especially after being diagnosed with epilepsy I realized that a lot of the strange mental experiences I’ve had were related to the odd behavior of neurons in my brain and not to any mystical stuff.
I believe that a dream takes place fully inside your own head and is constructed by your subconscious. I remember reading somewhere (it may have been EWLD, I’m not sure) that the brain during daytime is used to constantly processing sensory data and visual data most of all. And when you go asleep, your brain continues to process data. But since it’s not getting any data from the outside, it’s creating its own on the inside - resulting in dreams. That’s the most logical explanation of dreaming I’ve heard yet.
So, getting back to the topic… I think DC’s are just like everything else in your dreams, all in your head. Since I believe everything in a dream is a construct of your subconscious, so are your DC’s. I could even take it a step further and say that a DC reflects a certain part of yourself and who you are, or at least how you feel about that person IRL. Everything reflects your feelings, your thoughts, your experiences, your memories. That is how I’ve always dealt with my dreams. They’re mine. Nothing in them is alien, there aren’t any spirit guides getting into them or anything. All in my mind.
Of course, those are still my personal beliefs, and I don’t have all the proof to back them up. It just makes sense to me.
One can overthink this subject alot. wich is fun. If we accept that dreams and DCs are electrical impulses in the brain, then can’t we also say that our waking experiences are electrical impulses in the brain? And the people we think we are seeing are also electrical impulses. We don’t see the object directly, it’s a recreation. How do we know if it’s still there? Or ever existed? Could one be hallucinating? Dreaming?
So if both are impulses in the brain, then they are the same. Neither is more real, both are in fact, unreal. Still, I wouldn’t treat anyone as unreal, when I think I’m awake. Is the question really, Are people in waking life, WCs, real people?
I also wondered about that one Dream characters never seemed to create any kind of society, at least in my dreams; they also don’t have their own language, they are using olny languages I know, sometimes they are making up random words. Sometimes they can say very inteligent sentences, but most of the time they are not acting like that. Why ? because they are only fragments of our imagination.
I posted somewhere there that I think that in LD’s concousness are taking control over SC. That’s why DC’s are acting on their own will most of time - whey are olny creation of SC, and that one knows all what we knows, but nothing more. When we want to control DC’s we are controling SC that makes DC’s act like we want them to. Like Ashvura wrote : When we feel sad, feeling flows to SC, that that one makes dreams (so DC’s too) in reflection to that feeling. Same thing happens when we are feeling fine.
So DC’s are not real people, they are olny creation of SC. So we fully can make most evil stuff to them etc. But I am not making so. It’s like killing myself - they are mine creation. If something really bad happens, i am fighting with those most evil ones.
Edit:
DC’s also disappears when we will turn away view, or wake up - but then SC stop to create them. They stop to exist. But I also believe it’s able to create DC’s that will stay in SC, developing itself.
At least from a scientific point of view, it is common practice to take the simplest explanation for any experience. So, in this case, the simplest explanation is that DCs are a creation of the SC, which is also what I consider them to be.
Of course, people who do not like to follow “scientific belief” may still consider them to be real people, extradimensional beings, ghosts or the like. I just see nothing that would make this complicated explanation and all its implications seem neccessary.
DCs in my dreams are not very individualistic. What they say does not make much sense usually, although sometimes what they have to say can be unexpected and entertaining. I have all but given up trying to discuss with them. But I will probably make a few more experiments soon.
@krakatoa
The obvious difference between dream reality and WL would be the “sharedness” between individuals and persistence of WL (you always wake up into the same WL). In fact, this seems to be so obvious that one does not even think about proving it to anyone. This leads me to believe that dream reality and WL are in fact, fundamentally different, even if we may experience both in the same way (in the form of electrical impulses, since that is simply the way the brain works).
@Duck:
DCs not having any kind of society could easily be explained by them being “lost” in the many dream realities. They may be completely on their own. After all, that is what would happen if you popped up in a different dream, probably even of a different person, every few minutes.
Also, if they are extradimensional beings (or the like), the chance may be extremely small that any two DCs come from the same dimension and share a common language.
It is a very interesting topic. It is true that there is a persistence to WL that is not there in DL. There is also a constant movement in time in WL that is not there in DL. We sometimes dream in the past, or even in the future.
It is the persistence that gives WL a more real feel to it. When something is done, it has been done, and can only be undone by spending the time and work to undo it. It is also impossable to undo many things. Often we can only try to undo some of the effects of what we have done. There is also a persistence of state. That is, if I paint my bedroom walls blue, they stay blue, unless I or someone else paints them a different color.
This is all not true of dreams. Things that we do in a dream on one night, can be undone the next night, or dream. It can even happen in one dream. Sometimes I “replay” the same thing over several times in a dream, changing things until I am happy with the outcome. We can do that “in our minds” and in our dreams. That makes it easy to belive that our dreams are all in our minds.
On the other hand, sometimes there is persistence in our dreams. When we have recurring nightmares, there is persistence. As we pay more attention to our dreams, some of us find DC´s that are persistent. Sometimes crossing dream story lines to remain in our dreams. With friends and family, it is also easy to understand, but when it is someone that we don´t know IWL, then the question of where this DC comes from is left open.
It could be that our dreams are much more complex then we belive. If we don´t look too close, or decide from the begining that they are “just in our minds”, we might miss some of the persistence, and meaning in our dreams. Maybe someday we will find that sometimes we do connect to other people, or other beings in our dreams. If they are also in some kind of dream state, then it would make sence that they would “fit” in our dream world. They might also be seeing something very different. Then it is also true that no one knows what someone else sees when they see the color red, we just know that they agree that it is red. In their head, they might be seeing what we call green, but it stands for red in their head.
don
It’s not that I deny an objective reality. But I don’t think that dream and waking states are FUNDAMENTALY different. Quite the opposite, I believe waking life is almost the same as dreaming, but dreaming with sensory input. This becomes evident when you put a person in a sensory deprivation chamber, they begin to hallucinate.
Every experience we have is of our own mind, we know nothing about the outside world for certain.
Like, we may assume that our senses are portraying the objective reality pretty acurately, but that is because we have no frame of reference.
I would say that having sensory input as a basis for world image we build in our heads is a very fundamental difference, other then that, I would agree that all other differences are more degree then anything else. We don’t think as logicly in most LD’s, We are not as critical as IWL, but we do use some logic, and we are critical to some extent.
don
The foundation of all experience is the brain, We would experience something even if we didn’t have sensory input when we have the degree of brainactivity that we have when awake. Like in a sensory deprivation chamber. I’m not saying that everytihng we experience is completely coming from inside, we DO HAVE sensory input, I’m just saying that what we experience is always on the inside, no matter where it comes from.
That’s why I asked if waking life people are real. As a philosophical question. Not a matter of fact one.
All this leads to the conclusion that it is not your lucid dreams that feel like reality but that reality feels like a lucid dream.
As far as we know, everything we experience is also experienced by other people, IE this world is real. Therefor a solipsistic view is not a good one. But inside your own head, so to speak, the solipsistic view is the only real alternative. Otherwise you’re just deluding yourself.
One last off topic post. promise.
I’m not violently opposed to solipsism but I do believe in objective reality and other people.
What I was suggesting was not solipsism, but rather a view that even though we move around in the real world and interact with real people. That in a way, we are still locked in our own world, and our experience is only INFLUENCED by the real world through the senses.
Let’s take hearing for example. We hear a sound. but it originates from a vibration that causes a chain reaction in the air that makes our eardrum vibrate. What we are experiencing is not the vibration at it’s origin. but the effect it has on our eardrum, and not only that, in the ear the vibration is translated into electrical impulse that is sent to the brain and processed and only then is it HEARD. A vibration, wich is a MOVEMENT is experienced as a sound.
When we look at something we don’t see the object, we see the light that is reflected from it, yet we experience that we see the object. Perhaps a red object, wich is the lightfrequency that is reflected and therefore is not OF the object it’s rejected by the object, Wich bizarrely enough has absorbed ALL AOTHER colors except the one we see. We see the opposite of reality. In fact, the pattern of light on the retina is reversed both vertically and horizontally. and translated to electricity and passed to the brain.
PS. I’m really tired, I shouldn’t be writing.
Heres a thought: What if everyone really sees different colours, feels different temperature, and hears different pitches? There is noway of knowing; my text is black but only because at a young age you were taught that this colour is black. If you took a 1 year old and told him that this colour is red then he would think that this is red etc…
And if you take certain drugs to inbalance your brain chemicals it scrambles this all up anyways so whos to say that everyones heads are different and are composed of different levels of substances? Reality’s a really huge topic- someone should make it a sticky.
Well, i disagree, how can DC be more intelligent than the dreamer? Because DC are created by the dreamer so thier intelligence cannot exceed the dreamers own…
Well, i disagree, how can DC be more intelligent than the dreamer? Because DC are created by the dreamer so thier intelligence cannot exceed the dreamers own…
I know what you mean. It makes no sense that a DC can speak perfect insert language here if the dreamer doesn’t know a word of it. It might be dream-language, a language that your SC has made up(usually gibberish with an accent), and you perceive it to be insert same language. That happened to me before. I was watching the Japanese Version of Naruto in an ND, but there were no Subtitles, and I don’t know Japanese in RL. Yet in the dream I thought it was Japanese, but it wasn’t.
But if you don’t know japanese, how can you tell if it’s wrong? I’m just kidding. However. In the stream of consciousness of the dream something unconscious can be unearthed. Something that one does not “know” consciously may be spoken by a DC. For example, In a dream. I and a friend was running from a bear. And we hid. Then my friend says somthing like “Why are you running? This is a dream.”
It’s not all that unthinkable that we know subconsciously much more of a language than we know that we know.
Ofcourse the basic premise is right. If it hasn’t gotten into our heads it’s not there.
What if “real people” are just created by your subconciousness and your life is just a big Lucid dream? lol