It’s good to see you visiting ld4all icedawg. Hopefully you will pop back from time to time. 
see! that’s what i love about you guys. 
'k bye
I would like to direct your attention to the top right hand of the screen. You will see a link there to sealife which is a different site. One of our most popular members has a link to dreamviews in her signature. In fact we have many links to dreamviews and other sites in various posts on ld4all. We are welcoming of other lucid dreaming sits. So, (and I apologize in advance putting this so bluntly) you argument that we “holding one’s home in a higher light and occasionally having to denounce what lies on the outside to accomplish that” is completely absurd.
I can not say if this is true of you personally or not since I don’t know you at all. What I can tell you is :
=> many links on dreamviews to ld4all have mysteriously vanished or stopped working.
=> In several threads on dreamviews newer members have asked why there is not a link to ld4all on you links page. As near as I can tell they have yet to receive an answer. Furthermore, dreamviews has yet to place a link to ld4all on it’s links page.
=> Some of your members and mods have been openly hostile toward ld4all.
I can tell you why there is some hostility on ld4all directed at dreamviews but, I can not say the same for the reverse. Any hostility from us are the result of attacks by people and mods from your site, deletion of links and posts by your mods etc. What I can not find as I sift through old posts and links is what did anyone from ld4all do to dreamviews. From what I can tell we did nothing to provoke such hostility.
Anyway, I truly hope that things will change for the better in the near future. I would much rather spend my time discussing lucid dreaming or engaging in philosophical debates than dealing with nonsense. You have a good site with some good people and I for one would rather see the two sites emerge from this as partners rather than adversaries .
Good luck you you and I hope to heare more from you.
Its great I’ve been meaning to thank-you for a longtime, keep the link up but very soon the Crossroads will be moving to it own domain so I’ll makesure I send you the new URL.
I’ll join Dreamviews very soon as I have used some of your members dreams as examples of lucids as they described them so well, but I need to make sure its cool.
Personally I don’t think along forum lines like they are a political party and I have to think like everyone else, I’m sure many people here don’t either and have their own views on your forum. I would not come away with the impression that Dreamviews is unliked on LD4all just cause a few people out of thousands have not had good personal experiences.
“In Lak’ech” as the Mayans say “I am another you” which always seems to calm me down when I’m p***ed off with someone.
That’s quite understandable. I absolutely hate it when people just go through the posts and reply with “omg thats so cool” or “yes” or “no, obviously” and I know that whether they say it or not, they’re doing it for the post count.
Don’t worry; I think you should just count that as a small slip-up in your (new) career as a webmaster! 
As somebody said, it’s a little bit like a political party. Perhaps, if you want a more friendly approach to other forums and sites, you should take phrases like “Rhetorically, we attempt to extricate lucid dreaming from the ensnaring darkness of ignorance.” off the site, quietly (or loudly, I suppose!).
icedawg, you know she’s only acting? Only kidding. Heh.
Have you noticed how bad the link page is on ld4all here? It’s under more → links. It’s just a link to https://dream.start4all.com. I can say that it doesn’t have a link to the wikibook, the lucid crossroads, or dreamviews, or even ld4all itself.
I will assume that dream.start4all.com is not held by pasQuale (despite the similar name) and therefore that it’s pretty much none of our business. I hope pasQuale’s new site design will include a new links section.
What, like inter-site rivalry? I’de like to remind you all that having a variety of (programs, sites, etc) encourages both of them to keep improving. It’s good!
Ld4all does have its own problems. For example, there used to be religious debates cropping up everywhere. Some ridiculous claims (taking objects back from dreams) were handled quite well (that is, very skeptically but with very little flaming)… once the religious debating was split off.
hides behind couch
umm well dream.start4all.com is my site as well but i don’t do anything about it, i know half the links are dead or don’t work… most visitors it gets are from LD4all anyway… On the new LD4all will definately be a links page, don’t worry
runs away before r3m0t can throw a copy of the wikibook to her head
I was not referring to people who make ( what I consider) meaningless posts. On dream views they do appire to discourage people (especially new people) from posting regardless of the quality of the posts. I took the liberty to lurk around dreamviews yesterday and there were a lot of posts that I read when ld4all was down and they are not there now. They were not what I would characterize as abusive nor meaningless posts. The only thing I can think of is they did not concur with the beliefs and views of the dreamviews mods. Suppose that is their right. I am not trying to change how dreamviews operates their site. I am just glad that ld4all does not engage in this type of censorship.
Well how do you really know? That could be true but, you cant say for sure. Who are you to decide that anyway? I could easily point to any number of one or two word posts from you on this site alone. Yet I would not presume to judge the worthiness of those posts. As far as I know none of the mods here has either. Besides, even if what you say is true what do you care. So long as they are not abusive and have at least some relevance to the topic.
That may well be true but, you can find working links to various sites on threads throughout this forum. As far as I know the mods here do not arbitrarily remove links or posts just because they do not like the site they are linked to (or the people who make the posts) like other sites do.
You are going to get things like that on any site. I could start a forum about (lets say gardening) and you will get people who will find something to argue about. But, here on ld4all the mods find ways to deal with it (like splitting topics) so that no one person is censored. When you have a topic about lucid dreaming which has threads that inevitably dive into spiritual topics you going to get some arguments. What I like about ld4all is that it is a strong community. You can have people arguing in one thread and helping each other in another. Some people take things personally but, in my experience on ld4all that wears off pretty quickly. If a person here makes a mistake a goes a little to far they are not made to feel like a leper for all-time like on other sites. Anyway, the point is while we do have our share of hot topics here I would not characterize them as problems since they are dealt with fairly.
edit- Quick up date- Dm7 who ( as I mentioned in a previous post)was nice enough to place a link to dreamviews in her sig also posted a link to ld4all on dreamviews. I just checked dreamviews and her hole post is now gone. I truly hope I am mistaken about this. 
I noticed that also, but then I got a pm from icedawg that he restored the link in hargard’s post. So…
Dm7
My mistake. I should have checked with you before I posted that. Guess I jumped to the wrong conclusion. My apologies to dreamviews on that one.
milod that’s ok! I jumped to the conclusion too… then I saw that I had a pm… that makes everything so much better…
So don’t worry. 
Thanks Dm7 for letting us know!
Both forums need a bit more trust and communication else things keep on getting stirred up.
Bit like domino, every action pulls the next stone to fall.
Take one stone out of the circle and all stops there!
That stone is the lack of direct communication between the two forums.
Forums that both give so many ppl pleasure and a good time and experience with dreaming and lucid dreaming.
The restoring of the link and the personal pm from Icedawg towards Dm7 is a good sign and token from the Dream Views forum and from Icedawg himself.
Also his post here is a good sign, because its the first real contact.
I think we should place trust in Icedawg and DreamViews because to give trust is the only way to get trust and to give respect to receave respect.
Remember the stirring up some DV members did here at Ld4all is not Icedawgs or DreamViews personal fault.
And maybe the links about Ld4all is a misunderstanding.
So lets hear Icedawg first, instead of pointing fingers right away.
Trust me, emotions wont solve this issue, only communication can between the two parties and the simple fact we need mutual trust to work from.
And remember besides being the leader and creator of Dream Views Icedawg now also is a member of Ld4all. And above all he is a fellow Lucid Dreamer, let that stand for something to!
Jeff
Ok, you may not like this, but I am going to say it.
I learnt about LD’ing on Dream Views, which I thought was more professional looking than ld4all, which I thought looked a little cheesy (sorry).
To deal with some of the quotes of r3m0t…
A. “Are they really obsessed with post count?” No, we just don’t like people spamming it with posts about the rank, because, frankly, it is pointless spam.
B. [Discussion on Shared Dreaming] Well, duh, members of the forum are always going to have mixed views on things, obviously, in this thread, views conflicted.
C. “The main admin doesn’t like post counts.” Paperdoll EP is not the main Admin. icedawg, as far as I know, has nothing against them.
D. “Om my God, a 13-year-old has a post count of 2046? With 9 posts a day?” And why shouldn’t he have? Just because he is 13 does not mean he is stupid or inferior. Infact, he is possibly one of the most well known members of the forum.
Next…milod789…
A. “Also, many people on dreamviews have like zero tolerance with new people.” This minority of people have improved since, unless I’m missing something, and the community is generally very friendly.
B. "What I do not understand is why they became so hostile toward ld4all. Seems like it happened out of the blue from what I could tell. I could not find anything that anyone from ld4all did or said too or about dreamviews to instigate such strong feelings. DA is right they do call us names and do try to make fun of us. Why All that has done is turn people off to there site. Who knows I might have joined dreamviews that day but, the hole atmosphere there turned me off. Just as well anyway. I most likely would not have been too active on that site. ld4all is home as far as I am concerned. " This is another small minority of people, and nobody else can see why they are hostile towards ld4all, possibly because of the negative views here. Nobody calls you names outside of Senseless Banter, and, as the name suggests, nothing you read in Senseless Banter should be taken seriously.
icedawg, you have only one thing I want to comment on.
“i find myself at somewhat of a loss in regards to the slight deviation from that friendliness all of a sudden.” I joined Dream Views in May. The main atmosphere of the site was generally pleasant, welcoming, and friendly. Only in June did I notice any lack of this, and, again, only from a small minority of people. This, of course, did not last long, and this brings me neatly on to…
I feel there is no reason for ld4all to be hostile towards Dream Views. I feel there is no reason for Dream Views to be hostile towards ld4all. In fact, I feel this must end. Now.
Hey all !
I’m a longtime DV member , and I was lurking around here for quite some time.
I dont know how this hostility started, or why it started … but one thing is for sure - it doesnt benefit any of us…
DV forum was rapidly growing over the past year. At first we were a very small group of people, more like a family. And everyone was being nice, and it was really cool. But with growth comes the change. And when you see a 12-13 yr old kid who posted 202 replies (mostly 1-2 words + 
emoticon) in one day, you realize that not everyone feels like you do.
DV has a lot of younger members, and I like that they are treated like equals. However, some of them are more interested in “post whoring” then in actually learning lucid dreaming. I dont understand them and dont really like that kind of behavior.
Overall I’d like to remind you that the main purpose of these forums (DV, LD4all, sealife and dreammoods) is to have fun while learning LDing…
let’s live in peace and be a friendly oneironauts
PS sorry if I was jumping all around in my post 
PPS as you can see, everyone has his own opinion and I can only speak for myself (post above demonstrated that)
TEchboy you gave your honest opinion and that is never to be taken as an insult! I always respect an honest opinion!
So thank you for your post here at Ld4all
Iam glad both forums finally learn about the other party!
Welcome Techboy
Jeff
Hi everyone,
I am from Dreamviews as well. Some of you over there know me as Seeker. I’ve been hanging out here off and on (always undercover) trying to keep a finger on the pulse of this strange relationship our two websites seems to have gotten into.
I’ve enjoyed talking to Jeff very much this day and applaud his efforts to be a peacemaker.
I’ve got to say that it is not the intention of the dreamviews administration teem to have a hostile relationship. I thought all hostilities had stopped back in early July.
Needless to say, I was a little suprised to see that things have flared up again.
I hope we can all get along. Afterall, we are all on the same journey!
Best regards and happy dreaming to all!
-Seeker
Great post Ev
I share your opinion and agree with you!
Thanks for posting here because it will show all here what Dream Views stand for!
And not some few incidents that drawed a totally wrong image about Dream Views and its members overhere.
So welcome!
Hope to talk to you more often but then about dreams!
Jeff
Seeker: Erm, LucidGal? 
Well said…
Well said again…
Thank you!
-Techboy
Good post Seeker, i salute!
I fully agree with you, your post says it all!
More ppl should be like that!
I also enjoyed talking to you! We will do that again and then about dreams and things we enjoy.
Welcome Seeker, and thanks for posting here and helping out to solve this all!
Like you said we are all on the same journey!
Jeff
I think this topic has become beificial to LD4ALLs and DVs relationship.
“And the community is generally very friendly.”
I have to agree. The community does seem nice. I was welcomed, and impressed at the system. I suggested such a system to PasQuale.
All I will say is I have, very rarely, seen some rouges at DV. That is not to say that LD4ALL doesn’t have it’s rouges. But prehaps the fact that LD4ALL is larger means it passes much quiker.
Personally, LD4ALL is my home. So I prefere it. The easy to navigate layout attracted me to it.
I wonder, prehaps in the future, whether LD4ALL and DV will become affilates with each other. Afterall, the more the merrier.