I have been exploring lucid dreaming for some time. My favorite technique is WILD which sounds exactly like how to have a OBE. So far I have never had a OBE and am a little curious. It defiantly sounds different than a LD. How do you actually have a OBE. Is it just by luck. You are practicing WILD and accidentally OBE or is it a mater of intention.
Sounds like the Matrix to me . (LOL)
I felt some of the symbolism in that movie may not be too far off.
I have been reading a little into the subject of dark matter.
I Have often felt the universe is just a big machine: And we are the reason the machine was built.
It is a machine that gives us the ability to take form and become part of the worlds . Maybe we all entered this machine to take part of the journey and lost our way somehow even to the point we even forgot our own identity ( The Lost Sheep ).
When we dream we are actually taking part in the worlds we create , and possibly, we could also be taking part of the worlds others create being we are all part of the same Machine.
May be that old song we would sing as children wasnt to far off…
"Roll Roll Roll your boat gently down the stream
Merrily, Merrily , Merrily LIFE IS BUT A DREAM !
I have, and always will, remain a bit of a skeptic about all of these things, but I am never one to discount any sort of this thing either.
One thing that struck me as odd though…
I’ve had a few experiences during bedtime, and one during the afternoon, that very closely resembled what have been called OBEs or APs by some.
I didn’t realize this, until I started reading this site.
Of course, I could’ve heard details about it before, or something, and not consciously realized it, but I think that making an assumption that my subconscious mind MUST have read about these details and recalled them, without my conscious knowledge, is far from the “logical” thing to do.
Of course, to assume that I actually did “leave my physical body” isn’t necessarily logical either.
All I know: I have had multiple times, before I ever visited this site, experiences where I heard a loud noise in my head, felt vibrations, felt like I was “floating,” etc multiple times. Some at night during/before sleep, and one while I was actually sitting upright, I kinda “zoned out” and… yeah.
One time, I got to the point where I felt the so-called “pop” that some people have mentioned, the noise subsided, and I looked down on my room, my sleeping body as well, and the room looked completely accurate… as in, it wasn’t distorted, it was dark… I was freaked out though, so snapped “back” and awake in short order.
So, my personal experiences lead me to believe that the phenomenon that many people have described is not merely some sort of LD that comes from a subconscious desire to have an OBE or to AP, because I hadn’t heard details about these things.
If it’s actually leaving the body, a form of telepathy, astrally projecting, travelling to another dimension, my soul escaping for a few minutes, Satan playing tricks on me, my MIND playing tricks on me, me joining the higher consciousness, becoming one with God, Allah, Buddha, Yevon, Sidney Poitier…
I can’t make any judgements on any of that. All I know, is that it felt oddly “real,” but at the same time, was a completely different feeling than in normal, “waking” life. The room looked much more real than in my LDs, but of course, who’s to know for sure?
And yes, the noise/vibrations have occured a few times since then, but I always end up getting freaked out and snapping out of it before I actually “leave,” for lack of a better term.
BTW Sleepy, where do you live? Fermilab is right near me as well.
I know what ya mean . I have actually been half way to sleep and heard banging in my ears.
This is where you are on your way to the subconscience.
Sometimes when you are in this point , you will get a feeling of falling, and your body jerks you awake . If at that point you thnk about it ( being you are really at that level between being asleep and awake) you can focus on the visuals and trying to focus on the fact you are near the dream state, you can take control there!
Why all these different and limiting labels?..
Ld’s and obe’s are essentially the same thing, the difference being that obe’s is what a 100% mental and stable ld feels like…
In ld’s, the scenes you appear in is a combination of your conscious mind and your abstract mind. (universal mind… or call it what you will)
The possibilities of the abstract world will be filtered trough scenes created from the thoughts and realities of your conscious mind…
In obe’s, the abstract mind takes over total control and manifest itself in it’s truer form… as a separate (or paralell) being…
The basic message has been so twisted and turned around the years…
To question if there is something like ld’s and “obe’s” is to say that life and death doesn’t exist… they are basicly the same, but they do exist… they are the polar opposites of each other… the basic logic of 0 and 1… - and +… off and on…
When + and - comes to be, the reaction wil simultaniously create the state that exists on the borderline between them… this place is what we experience clearly in an “obe”…
It’s the mid-line, and golden middle road, buddhists call the experience of feeling this state: “nirvana”…
How your mid-line will play out will be dependant on where you placed it in the first place… your life is basicly a chance to move the line where you choose to… buddhists and others call this keyframe: “karma”…
These processes are also somthing that as good as all religions (all which are originally just the same “how I apprehend existing, and good tips for dealing with the rest” manuscript re-interpreted by different minds in different situations and diffrent ages) have as the corner-stone of their way of life. Religions have been so mislabeled lately, all they really aspire to do is trying to bring us important wisdom and great metaphors from the people that had these exact same experiences 100’s and 1000’s of years prior to ourselves…)
This is also most logically the thing I presume you’ll experience when you die…
Remember, the only way getting obe’s and also ld’s is “tricking” your conscious mind to fall asleep and leave your mental self behind…
The only time in your life that your conscious mind won’t need tricking, is the moment you die… because then there will be no conscious mind to wake back up to.
The old tales of “They said it wasn’t my time yet” from so-called “near death experiences” probably came to be because there in fact WAS a conscious mind to return to… It’s not our time until our conscious mind is dead beyond repair…
Simple deduction of facts of life as we know it:
-We are here
-We are able to end it anytime we self wish, proving that it’s not an eternal state… it’s a (+), and we prove that the opposite (-) exists by saying just that… I experience (+), I choose to do (-) thus cancelling the equation…
-We have an “awake” state consisting of the most vivid and continous hallucination probably possible… at least for a wave-recieving and wave-sending system as ourselves…
-We have a “sleep” state consisting of a paralyzed dormant recouporation, or void if you will… (the feeling your tv “feels” when it’s beeing turned off, and the electricity escapes back to the socket from hence it came… it’s manifestation and purpose siezes to excist until it is turned back on again.)
…
Wherever (+) and (-) combust, there will be created a bordeline where these two meet… This we can call “0”, not 0 as in nothing… but 0 as in everything…
The state you experience in everything from light flurry dreams to ld’s and obe’s is along the “0” …
In typical human thinking terms, somewhere between (+) and (-) would be a decreasing state of awareness boardering on stupor… this is wrong, because “0” is not the merging of (+) and (-), It’s the summary of the equation the two represent… solving it, and therefore pushing the whole equation one level further… into realms where the previous + and - doesn’t even matter…
Ergo… the place where the focuspoint now lies is not somewhere between the old + and -, it’s rather somewhere within the place that spawned the equation that we have come to accept and label as “life” in the first place.
This place will feel familiar to all when experienced, because this is where our minds and “souls” originate from originally…
This place is reachable trough birth, meditation, ld’s, obe’s, drugs and death… only permanent change is trough birth and death (a +/- equation all on it’s own… basic knowledge we are programmed to know, therefore we can imediately recognize the identical but smaller (+/-) equations happening inside our own life… like man/woman, love/hate, good/bad and everything else…
You say “We will never know”…
Don’t you think it’s a slim possibility that we were born knowing?..
That maybe it’s the place inside you that your inspiration comes from… that old image buried in your soul, that you seldom talk to other people about, simply because you would think it irrelevant to them… and write it off as just old experienced life-imagery… though you do know each time you write it off that it’s really something else, you’re just unable to define it in any other earthly description than music, art, poetry… It all works as a catalyst to remind us where we come from and where we soon again will go…
I don’t know, but as I do believe that all humans are born more or less equal out of something… I think we all know this to be true inside ourself.
You are the key.
…sorry for a rather long 1’st post, but I kinda thought it as appropriate… 
ehm… anyone? or did my +/- metaphors throw everyone off before finishing the 5 first lines of my post? 
Hi Daimos 
No, your post is quite good infact!
I will reply later, was already on my dutch dream forum writing a long post about obe and lds.
so some later then today ill reply to your post!
But dont worry its a good post!
Jeff
hehe… good or not good isn’t really imortant… it’s an entertaining thesis atleast… 
yes obe’s always entertain and atract posts, thats true! 
Well… the first time I had an obe, before learning how to separate consciousness in a somewhat effective manner, it was more frightening than entertaining but… 
ahh, freakin’ come on! at least one relevant reply before the end of this year… Is that too much to ask?.. 
well yeh it is frightening for many, at first, but if you practise it and learn more about it, you will understand its just natural and cannot harm you in any way.
-stranger
yeah, I am aware of that… I was however refering to my universe-thesis on page 3
People rarely post in OBE threads here .
well… they should
From experience having conscious OBE’s and lucid dreams I believe the difference between the two is our level of conciousness. When we dream our subconcious mind still has a grip on our conscious mind which is why we create things so easily etc. In an OBE our conscious mind is at the front, like how what we see now is “real.”
When we consciously OBE it skips the falling asleep phase and our subconscious never gains the control that it does in dreams.
IMO both occur at exactly the same place.