you know this thing could be a plazebo effect, you could feel euphoric simply on faith that its real. oh well i have nothing to loose by believeing in it so why not. dont you want your life to be an adventure. i look at such things… for example my right hand has the word “May” on it the month i was born. you would have to see it to know what im talking about. so to it means im specal. after all we are all the hero in our own story, and we have been given the opertunity of being born in a very spiritual time of change. so why not live it to the fullest. i want my life to read like an adventure book instead of a tax form. so when i look at “coincidences” in dates such as my five year anniversery being on the same day as this galatic cosmic burst of love then to me it means something that makes my story more entersting. its all god leading me to the climax of my story. im allready a LD/APer. that in itself is adventure within my adventure. your not going to find any magic in life if you dont look for it.
things to keep in mind. this is the month of a blue moon. what does Obama have to do with all of this? is he going to anounce that E.T does exsist. keep in mind allso that this could be a announcment of the Antichrist? remmber the Blue ray project. ive watched this on youtube. its all very entersting. so with this in mind are you ready. 2012 is here today. why arnt you pumped up about this this topic should be hot with this forum wake up people. we are disscovering that thhis life is a dream, and we are about to learn how to become lucid in it. We allready have a huge headstart being LDers. this os why we were all lead here right. this could be huge i dont know about you, but i cant sleep, or i may be asleep right now. do lots of RC today.
Believe what you want to believe, but without confirmable evidence (which means that experiments/photos must be experimentably replicable) there is no way this “discovery” is going to enter a scientific journal (and therefore be called “scientific”). That includes nobel prizes.
I will try to make this simple. Science is a search for truth in the most logical, rational way possible. The scientific method assures that evidence is reliable and valid and that deductions based off the evidence lead to a specific conclusion. If either of these properties remain unfulfilled, then science automaticall leads you to the conclusion “We can’t say anything about this either way.” This is the precise case here. Because we don’t have evidence of intelligent extra-terrestial life, then the most sensible and logical deduction possible to make is that we cannot say if aliens exist or not. That is the case here. The evidence that these “scientists” have found is not replicable. Other, neutral scientists cannot repeat the experiments and observations these “scientists” have made. Therefore, the evidence is not really evidence at all.
If you still decide to believe that extra-terrestial life most certainly exists, then you are not operating under logic. Without logic, through faith, any conclusion can be drawn. Is it so difficult to see the irrationality of having any conclusion possible from anything? If not, consider these examples…
“You’re wrong. The Earth is flat and the moon consists of cheese, period. Whatever you say I’m right, and you’re wrong.”
“President Obama killed my baby, because I hate him!”
“Trains of the past used piccolos as fuel, because I said so.”
If you choose not to “believe in science,” then you must refute the science behind the computer allowing you to post in these boards, the science that predicts why objects fall downwards, the science that discovered artificial fertilizer providing food for 80% of the world’s population (Haber-Bosch process), the science that brought to you penicillin should you otherwise become terminally ill.
Do you really think that these discoveries were made by people who sat around and speculated? Who thought that diseases were caused by demons? Who thought that trolls, ogres and fairies existed? Do you really think the services science brings you in your daily life was based off people believing mixing up a few things would create the artificial fertilizer that provides so much food for our population? Of course not! The people who improved our living standards so vastly were the people who rigorously used the scientific method to good means. And if you choose not “to believe in science,” then you might as well revert back to the Dark Ages, when people suffered horribly through disease, starvation and social depression.
Or, you can try to give me a valid reason why you choose not to “believe in science” and I will gladly listen. Science is not a religion. Science is derived from a working brain.
Bombax, you can’t forget the same science once said Earth was the center of the universe. And that the same science is only now discovering things ancient folk knew to be truth - some examples are “the mountain is moving” ancient Zen saying (moving atoms are the basis of everything that seems still) or the newest quantum physics leading to believe that there are several universes, a basic thing in many religions (Judaism and Hinduism, to name two).
Besides that there are many true scientific research (mainly working with statistic relevance) showing OBEs, shared dreams, lucid dreaming, etc are real, but the mainstream science simply closes it’s eyes and refuse to acknowledge the evidences that have been around for decades.
So, my point is, your faith in science may be blind. Never forget it’s done by humans, and that it’s strongly affected by non-scientific influences, such as the global market, common-knowledge (in it’s worst sense), trends, preconceptions, intolerance, etc…
Presence of Light, thanks for sharing. Have you come across anything new about this strange (way strange!) phenomena?
The same science? Hah! Not at all! The rigorous scientific method did not begin to be used until the renaissance, when the conception that the Earth was in the center of the universe was actually questioned. You got it completely backwards. It was in fact the implementation of logical, free and evidence-based science that some scientists started to challenge that precise claim.
The “ancient folk” had no evidence whatsoever of certain observable phenomena, nor the capability to use it. That is why there are so many incorrect premises in ancient texts - such as the stars being the eyes of gods, that ravens were evil and that rock formations were petrified trolls. The existence of a few, cherry-picked ancient proverbs that are very crudely similar to existing theories does not automatically prove that the rest of their “truths” are true (which, in many cases, they are directly dismissable).
Last I looked, there is only confirmable, replicable evidence available to show that lucid dreams really are dreams in which you are aware, and not “micro-awakenings” as was previously hypothised. You can, of course, show me some replicable experiments that prove shared dreams and OBE’s and/or evidence published in scientific journals.
Not if it’s done right, which is what peer-review is for, to pick up such errors.
Right now I can’t remember any direct source to show you, but I remember reading a paper about astral projection, where projectors had to go to another room or even country and say what they had seen. I think I found the link at the Monroe Institute website, but I’m not really sure. Anyway, I have a feeling that wouldn’t be reproducible enought for you.
Yeah, but science is there to show us how much ideal conceptual systems seldom work IRL.
I won’t go further into the matters you quoted because I don’t think there’ll be any profit in it. My meaning here is that science does work, I believe in it (maybe not as much as you do ), but there is a great deal of ancient knowledge that science doesn’t even begin to grasp (accupunture, for example). You’ll probably reply “i doubt it because science hasn’t said anything about that” and that’s exactly my point. Keep your mind open, the clues to that are all around, and if you’d ever take a less radical stance I’d be happy to have this discussion again.
What is this ‘science’ that people seem to hate so much here? People make it sound like a dirty word or something?!
Science, is a best, a system… a system that Bombax has clearly described for everyone to understand. Its fundemental building block is logic. Its actually very simple.
What is not so simple is the people who use science, this system, for their own agenda. Like any system, humans are ultimately involved and corrupt the system. I have read alot of scientific papers, peer reviewed and not, I see a lot of ‘science’ in mainstream media passing off opinion as fact, and fact as opinion. So, the best thing we can all do is question everything, question the source of the information, question the motivation, question, question, question everything until you relise there is no truth. Question science!!! But make sure your science is the same science other people are talking about. ‘Mainstream media’ science that is feed into the fast food culture brains is not real science. That is Marketing and Politics. It is a way for the big companies to position you into buying their products.
Who here has received a swine flu (or mexican flu?!) shot? Wasn’t science the same entity telling us we need these shots or we will all get horribly sick and die? But how could it be when the same science was also telling us that they didn’t know the effectiveness of the drug and the more people die (statistically) from the seasonal flu than from the swine flu?! Weird? What to believe? So, who is going to make something out of all these ‘necessary’ shots people are getting?! Someone is?
this is a good read if you want to,
i don’t feel this guy has any light in him, but i don’t feel he is working for the wrong reasons,
i want to talk about the hijacking of subconscious resources if you care to hear :
when we have a presentation given by an agency saying something = something,
just their mere statement, combined with the perspective of them being powerful, knowing what they are taking about, is hypnosis.
for instance, Santa Claus = bad ,
so they draw some cartoons and come up with charts to prove it, and bury the truth ,
or IRAQ has… weapons of mass distraction,
the mainstream media is not trustworthy, and this is not a missle, its a stargate, but ye ti am also saying something = something, so really i am only writing to people that think the idea of benevolent beings from other galaxies and planets is wonderful, probably, and contact with them , inevitable
also want to add it is very probable that propagandist are hired to go to youtube and say things like “My uncle sees these things all the time, he’s a rocket scientist”
A few weeks ago President Obanma announced on ABC NEWS that unless his bill was passed, the federal govenrment would go bankrupt
it is already done,
the banks are bankrupt, all over the world,
they were brought into this state on purpose by benevolet factions to overthrow the illumnati, of which Obama is a key player, to bring in a golden age and end all corruption.
it is only through witness the sheer absurdities and idiocies of this system, how terrible it is, how corrupt and worthless and based upon hate and fear and war it is, that it could be brought down for the entire world to see the truth, groups.yahoo.com/group/MarkHuber … ssage/1273
western religion was a joke, it kept people blind,
western science was a joke, it kept people blind
free energy was discovered by Tesla , it was suppressed by the Rockefellers
you know the story of hemp ? why it was made illegal ?
it was a threat to the lumber industry ,
why was free energy made illegal, so to speak ? it was a threat to the oil industry
it is every where in our media, you need only watch the Simspons to see the simple truth of how obvious the lies are,
The Matrix, too
as Einstein put it, science without mysticism is worthless,
it is very obvious if it is thought about from the right angle,
Star Wars,
Avatar,
10,000 BC , a perfect illustration of the Annunaki take over and deception
The Matrix,
The Simpsons,
of course there is untruthful movies too,
expect to see the truth of 9/11 on mainstream news very soon, although much better things too
and look at this fellow who overpowered the t _ rrorist on that flight recently, how impotent evil is becoming.
You seem to say often that there is mass suppression of wonderful revelations that would revolutionise the world. I’m sorry, but I simply do not believe things are so simple. There are too many outlets for information that simply can’t be controlled. Maybe a government can take down a website, maybe with more difficulty they could take down one hosted in another country. What about freenet? tor? irc? some of the many other decentralised communication systems, inherently resistant to control. I can’t accept all the people involved in these many projects are being paid off by the government to do what they want.
Maybe somebody with enough resources could make objectionable content or people disappear, but I don’t think they could do so without leaving traces, traces that there are too many people out there looking for, for them to block. I don’t mean frivolous accusations either, I mean actual information that will lead to revealing, or give a basis to rediscover suppressed information. It’s been 66 years since Telsa died, he may have been brilliant, but are you telling me that nobody in that time has had the ability to study and rediscover what he did? or that anybody who did, was not aware of the dangers that are attributed to such discoveries. You can’t have it both ways, you can’t be immensely brilliant and immensely naive. It’s also not enough to say people are too afraid to study it, many scientists study what they do because of the most honest and heartfelt desire to make things better.
That’s just my first impressions, based off looking at the context of the implications being made.
simple truth?
obvious lies?
This sounds a lot like assertion to me.
“as Einstein put it, science without mysticism is worthless,”
I like that, the only thing is, if this is true, mysticism without science is equally worthless.
You’re reducing the ways information can be suppressed. To be sure I share your skepticism on this particular instance (both for the dimension of the alledged suppressed truth, and for their more practical implications on my world view at large).
But if information couldn’t be twisted, bent, suppressed and otherwise manipulated, affinity groups wouldn’t be so powerful, marketing and branding wouldn’t be so lucrative, and politics wouldn’t be the same on a foundamental level. What I’m saying, however cynical it might sound, is that rather than distrusting PoL’s claims because the truth should always surface through indie channels, one should distrust them because any information highly marketed is inherently unworthy of trust.
It’s not a matter of discovery. What Tesla laid out wasn’t suppressed, but it was more of a proof of concept: a demonstration that wireless transmission of energy is scalable and therefore suitable for mass energy service. His proof of concept has been polished and brought closer to reality through the past 70 years there being no deliberate act of suppression like PoL seems to imply. What happens is: it’s a damn costly enterprise and no-one is up for financing a research for a technology which in over 70 years hasn’t shown a sign of being profitable (the expression “Free Energy” is quite literal!) which is quite sad, but logical. Lately, there’s been concern about health and ecological issues related to, say, transforming whole patches of the Earth’s magnetosphere into a big floating battery of sorts and that’s only one of the many terrible hacks through which wireless energy transmission could be really scalable, one more preposterous than the other!
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”
Albert Einstein, Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium, 1941
Carnun, I agree completely with you. Science is truly a wonderful system! That is fairly obvious to anyone who’d care to look at technological evolution in the past few centuries.
I’m not sure you were talking about me hating science. If that’s the case, let me assure you I don’t I just wanted to play the devil’s advocate: as you’ve said yourself, science is great, but the pratical real world is often not so. I just wanted to oppose Bombax’s almost fanatical view with that fact (not to be mean, of course, just to enrich the discussion).
But I guess the bottomline of your post is: Question EVERYTHING. I once again agree, and I have said that to Presence of Light earlier in this topic: I’ll be really pleased if friendly ETs drop by in 2012 and solve all of our problems. But if it ever happens, I’m gonna hide in a cave, watch, learn, question everything first and take an informed decision. I’ve read his last posts and it all seems too perfect to be true. Well, I’ve said that before, go and read the earlier pages if you feel like it
Presence of Light, thanks once again for your links - the scientific analysis of the spiral is really something everyone should read. I’ve found another video you might like but I fear it leans more to my view of the facts than yours… Anyway, to me it’s all good, as long as it adds to the discussion.
GreenDragon, I agree nobody can hide the truth from everyone. It reminds me of a saying, something along the lines of “you can hide all truth for some time and some truth for all the time, but you can never hide all the truth all of the time”. But there is a very powerful tool they have used that is just as good as complete manipulation, which is ridicularization. I mean, if you hear the phrase “somebody on IRC told me ETs are allied with the US government” you’ll probably dismiss the information because it simply sounds ridiculous. Once again, if somebody goes to the head of an oil company and says “hey, a bunch of time ago somebody invented something that completely obsoletes fossil fuel, why don’t we use it?” then I’m pretty sure the executive would think “this guy is ridiculously crazy, if such a thing ever existed and worked, it would be the standard, and I have never heard of such a thing!”. I’m not saying anything specific is true or false, I’m just saying that if a tabloid exposes a major truth, most people would just dismiss it, because it’s a tabloid, and not mainstream “trustworthy” media.
Disclaimer: I’m pretty tired right now, sorry if stuff doesn’t make sense or if I seem offensive. It’s not my intention at all. In any case, post here and I’ll read and answer if any clarification is needed.
SPOILER - Click to view
That is, if they don’t get me first.
Hey, I really like discussion like these here on ld4all - folks here are usually open-minded and discussion is always constructive!
THAT THIS
is announced to the world indicates that the dark forces that have operated for so long are all but gone, for this woman to be able to come forward safely about this is a tremendous quantum leap in the public having to face that there are and have always been sentient highly evolved lifeforms on other planets, and ours
president eisenhowers great great grandaughter comes forward to admit she was recruited / targeted to do secret projects on mars
I regret to announce that I have been carrying a terrible secret. You see, the federal government of the USA recruited me a long time ago to open warp rifts to Aiur, in order to spy on the Protoss and study them, should they attack Earth. I knew all along. I also regret to announce that I helped the government conceal from people the true material of the Moon; you see, the moon rocks brought from the Moon are in fact stones from a mine in Arizona, because the moon is actually made from cheese. The government wanted to hide this fact because of the devastation it would cause to the Earth’s dairy companies. I feel, however, that I must reveal this secret to you now.
i haven’t really read the whole topic but I could see that there’s a lot of talk here about the governments…
I think that it’s important to point out, In governments, armies, etc… the higher you get, the more secure everything is. I have friends who were in all sorts of countries doing certain operations while their families and friends were thinking they were 40 miles down at the base.
People who are working in intelligence departments with very high security clearance are usually not involved with anything that isn’t directly related to them. They usually don’t know what people who are close to them are doing. No one gets to know information that is not ESSENTIAL to his work… There are very clever systems to keep information tightly secured…
It’s easy (& tricksy) to slip into this dichotomic way of looking at things, like there’s a government and people , 2 separate entities and one is keeping a secret from the other. There are just many many individuals, first of all humans, even those in the government, you know, people… with their own agendas, with their own fears & aspirations, motivations, their own egoistical needs and desires (which are — let’s face it — usually about getting a higher salary . NOT about saving the world. regardless of what it is they do)
I guess what I’m saying is, it’s a real live humanistic situation that is comprised of individuals, meaning that individual choices are dealing the cards. which means that emotions, feelings, fears & desires are usually the dominant forces. NOT logic and strictly profit oriented choices…
human (average & current) nature… nothing more, nothing less. For example, there are people , who will wake up today, go to their office and think about how to make 2% more people buy their medicine this year. Do they want the human race to be sicker than it is ? Well of course they do… that’s what they live on. Tobacco companies live on people smoking. Medicine companies live on people being sick. That’s just our planet…
irrefutable proof 9/11 was an inside activity, or at least incredibly covered up and lied about, thermite present in the building material, thermite used to take down all the buildings, including wtc 7
youtube.com/watch?v=QrO8kqiedzA
former governor Jesse Ventura on the MEDIA EVERYWHERE THIS WEEK, explaining as much as they will let him about this :
the interpretation of all of this is up to you ,
my understanding is we are incredibly close to an inevitable change, and the revelations are hitting the fan like crazy , hopefully will pick up a lot more momentum, the levels that we have been deceived are appalling ,
especially the incredible technologies they have refused to ( the illuminati that is ) share with us ,
now whatever you want to think :
there are ufos,
we have done a lot of top secret things that whistleblowers are disclosing right now especially, with other beings outside of this planet ,
and,
here is just some solid proof here,
change is inevitable
also there is the obvious much brighter than a planet, what is that its not a star, and the entire sky is subtly flashing now and then , stuff going on , if you happen to notice it, its pretty cool !
youtube.com/watch?v=-Ih4Y6RcQ50
long time firefighter explaining how the “official” investigation of 9/11 was absolutely criminal and violated a tremendous amount of standard investigatory procures that are done on things as simple as minor property loss, let alonesomething this massive, where proper investigation might be more warranted, they were not allowed to test the debris for explosives, and hauled as much of it as they could off to be melted ,
now of course lots of us might say “who cares” , but it was an act of mass murder , lets not forget
youtube.com/watch?v=rsxtcqGi … re=related
“loose change” authors are face to face with an unfortunately zombie like reporter who is bent only manipulating them for sound bytes and totally incapable of asking even the most simple intelligent questions
shedding light on the incredibility of our mainstream “news” media
looks like you’re watching the Simpsons almost
please do not feel fear or sorrow or concern,
i perceive these as the most joyful and exciting times , and the beginning of a golden age of peace and infinite abundance, playfulness, freedom, and joy