How realistic is a Lucid dream?

Soothsayer, I agree on that :smile:

A good article on this can be found at:

A little exerpt:
Reports of apparent waking dreams can be traced back to the Middle Ages when men and women recorded nighttime visitations of a sexual nature by demons called a succubus or incubus. In Newfoundland this visitor was called an Old Hag due to its frequent resemblance to an old woman. In the 19th century they were thought to be witches. Each culture and time interprets events in light of their outlooks and beliefs. Today, many people conclude that they have been visited by aliens.

To answer the original question, lucid dreams can feel even “more” real than reality. Many of my Luicd’s could be described as astral projections (undecided about “reality” of OB’s and AP’s) and cause I always seem to have extra senses in my lucids it can can seem more “real” than reality.

Senses like feeling the atoms of a material you pass through, knowing about the object you see before interacting with it etc and all the time feeling completely comfortable with this knowledge makes it seem like our “reality” is just a pale imitation of the true “reality” of a lucid high dream.

Of course thats only to be expected as my mind is in charge, so its no proof of the reality of a dreamed world or the reality of a spirit double of yourself being able to move around or the reality of the astral planes of existance.

I do “feel” that psi (extended human abilities yet to be proven by mainstream science, they do not take cumlative evidence) can become wrapped up in what we lucid dreamers do in our “un-normal” sleep.

I seen posts on forums where lucid dreaming is not known about, where the people who clearly don’t think they are asleep have been attacked by what we would call fears of our own mind. They have been left physically scarred (claw marks etc) by the attacks however and objects left behind, its never happened to me and I only truely belive what I experinece myself but I didn’t beleive they were lieing, just scared.

Shared dreaming, healing dreams, prophetic dreams etc I think are all do do with psi states that are easier to access in a lucid or dream like state. As for the other unexplained, ufo’s, astral dimentions etc, no-one on this forum knows one way or another, thats the only thing I can guarentee!

I think there’s a fair case for astral dimentions, mathermatics and physics seems to more and more allow for them and if they exsit I’m sure they could be accessed.

As I said I only beleive when I’ve experienced somthing, however maybe I have but like many other people can’t even prove it to myself. :wink:

If you’ve read this far and are still interested in this subject I sugges you read Lucid Dreaming The Paradox of Consciousness during sleep, written by Celian Green and Charles McCreery, namely chapter 4. You can probably pick up the book at the local library.

I agree with what Soothsayer is saying. He’s not being negative… he’s just using common sense, something all of us should use before saying that the dream world is an actual world, etc.

More Power: As for your amazement regarding what your mind is capable of in dreams… LDs are just a good way for you to get a glimpse of the power of the subconscious mind. We should use our LD time to experiment on trying to use that power in our wake.

Right on, soothsayer. I too, am an advocate of reason, even when it comes to the realm of dreams and the far reaches of the human mind.

As to the conspiracy theory people, a lot of false memories can be generated under hypnosis, beware anyone who claims to have extracted so called truth or confessions in this manner. And as Pantalimon said, perhaps a person may honestly THINK something happened to them, which did not, or a more logical explanation exists.

Towards the original nature of this thread;
Everything you perceive around you, encompassed by the word “reality” is only signals interpreted by your brain. What’s REAL is only what your brain can grasp. That idea in consideration, is it really so inconceivable that our minds can create elaborate scenarios with years worth of data obtained from experience in “reality?” If anything, I think the realm of dreams holds MORE potential than waking existence, because we are not restricted by physical constraints, and the limits of our perceptions; the only force prohibiting the unimaginable is just that–our imaginations! Hence we are all gathered here, fascinated with these incredible phenomena.

I just got an idea on the whole alien abductiuon/scarring thing. Perhaps scars from “alien abductions” have always been there and when people have an “abduction” they break through a wall that has been forcing them to repress (don’t like that word, pretend for a few sentences like you have never heard all of it’s Freudian uses…) a memory of how the scar came to being. Hence, an “abduction” is something that someone would rather have explain a scar than it’s true cause. As far as implants, etc, goes, I am not so sure. This is kind of getting off topic though…

I still agree with what most people have said about the reality of dreams, most of it is similar to what I first said, that it is so real because we define for ourselves what is real from experience.

hi all im new to the forum, but you can see me in the chat as alayambo.
as to the concept of realness, i cannot help but to bring up the scene in the Matrix when the main character is face with the question ‘What is real?’ the logical response given is that ‘real’ is defined by electrical charges sent to the brain.
according to this definition, one of the only differences between a lucid dream and our waking life is the chemical that your brain sends down your spine during rem period preventing you from acting out the dream. in this sense, lds are in fact real, within the limits of this particular definition of the word.
i am sorry if this conradicts with your opinions, but this is mine.

According to your definition of the word “real”, I would agree with you saying that LDs are “real”. However, I don’t agree with your definition. Ask most people and they will tell you that there is clearly a difference between the importance of what they do in dreams as opposed to waking life. I think “reality” should therefore be defined as:

The perceptions of existence originating from an external source that are felt to be most important in defining someone’s personality.

This restricts LDs as not being “reality” while allowing us to discuss whether or not false memories can be considered “reality”.

Okay lets see here, Much fun have been said here in this topic. But lets see here, Dreams. yes. They is as vivid as you see your normal life, But there is special abilitys involved during a LD, But its all in your head. Due to your world of the LD is in your mind, you can feel, see, taste and such in a way that would seem like a normal way to do so. An example. You think sand, What do you think about? A sandy oasis? You direct get somekind of picture of a word. The same is in a Dream or LD, you see something, And then your unconsiusness “draws” what you think about. Abut the calrity i dont understand what you are questioning? You are just replaying memorys of things you have experienced before.
Things like flying and passing through walls and such things that we have never done in real life is “drawn” by our unconsiusness as we expect them to feel like. If we expects to feel small vibrations when we fly, we do. If we feel like we are floating in the air, we do so.

And no, I do not think, or even consider that Dreams and LDs are a real place, If you yourself or your unconsiusness thinks in thoes ways, your DCs will say that it is in a surtian way. I have had meny dreams that i am unsure of if there are places in “real” so to say, or just in my mind. But i have never experienced, in my awake state anything that can fill a possibility to another “world” or anything like that, that hold our dreams.
Just imagine how that world would look like, Or even consist of. If we where a meter, or Whatever from it, It would leak over creatures of things to our world. So No. It do not exsist.

The things about being abducted… Okay Hear about the power of the will and mind? You can, with the proper concentration make yourself bleed, or even stop your heart. So yes, Under a dream state, your subconsiusness can take control and make you leave the bed, Have you dream a un-realistic dream about being abducted and make scars on your body. So Abduction do not exist. Before people where being abducted by smallfolks and faries, Today its Aliens…

And to End the note, Just have good dreams. Dreams are natural, dont make them unnatural. :smile:

I’m sorry Chiarm, I agree with some of your post but so far in this thread its been Jack who’s talked the most sense.

You can’t use “no it does not exsit” and such sweeping statements. From your post it becomes clear when you talk about “being just a meter away from another world (dimention) and stuff leaking through”, its perfectly clear you don’t even understand the laws that goven the universe you can experience let alone any other, real or imagined.

Current theroy’s of physyics have universes that are imesurablely close to our own in fact we wear millions of them like a second skin. Mathermatics is only just coming to grips with these other universes and is attempting to describe them.

Heh…looks like i unintentionally started discussion here.Reading recent post i need to clarify something.
It turned wrong way.I understand there are two ways of seeing lds-sciencific and spirituall.Last posts sound like some ppl understood that im saying its definately spirituall and sciencific points of view are wrong.Well,thing is-i surely wish it was spirituall world and i like to think about it like this.But im not saying its a fact or try to convince anyone.
I only stood up against treating this topic with attitude “i know”.I dont know,you dont know,he/she does not know.
We all have a right to think about it as we like or how we experienced it.But no side has proves to support any of those theories.
So one more time: there are two:sciencific and spiritual.None of those is my or Soothsayer`s or anyones.They are just points of view.
At this point its just too far to say this or that is right.Its up to anyone beliefs.Exactly same like God existance.
Pantamillion took a words out of my mouth:).

And I want to say I’m not skeptic, I just think twice… :smile:
I want to spread the word about lucid dreaming, but there is one big problem.
Majority of web-sites will present it like it is new-age… spiritual enlightment… astral travel… etc. or similar concept.
I would say ‘normal’ people will say ‘aaalllright…’ and then forget whole thing. This is sad, but true.
btw. this thread has been quite off-topic… :smile:

I totally agree with that.

Okay just a defencive post. dont mind.
Im aware of that my post did flip out there after a while, But when i post, Isnt to state what i think or know. Know is just if you think a thing is very vivid so you can call it that you Know it. If nothing is speaking for it, and other stuff speak against it. Then i must say that i know, Not think.

And hmm. i can surly speak of some sutch of language that i wish, if i say that it do not exist nowhere but in our heads, Then that is my reality. And i have the freedom to speak my thoughts. :smile:

And God do exist, How else do all the christian people belive in? smile (Just a fun thought)

Dreams are natural…

Careful! That is a whole other topic… I agree that there are two sides here, LDs are either spritually best explained or scientifically best explained, external or internal experiences. However, I would have to disagree with Jack that you can’t tell ever which it is. I think that you could support the scientific view but not the spiritual view. Therefore, if it is spiritual we will never know whether or not it is spiritual, if it is scientific or internal, we can provide evidence to support this, just like other things accept to be true.

Lucid dreaming will be interpreted as “New-age” if you present it that way. I have found that if I tell someone about it pretending as if I am a natural LDer, and at surprise that they don’t LD (without using LD terms, of course) then they will listen and be interested. However, if I present the concept of LDing and then say I practice it, people tend to shy away. It is in presentation, it seems, instead of content.

Ohhh…its a real pity we dont know more.We dont know what are dreams for.What is rem for.What if we turned spirituall instead of technicall somwhere in the past…what if we saw things from other planes?
whats gonna happen if we pass the light speed?so on son…its pretty frustrating for me all this stuff.
did god created brain?or brain created god?is brain a mind? telling you,theres just too many unknowns around:(:(:frowning:
We dont know how far science can take us,does it have any limitations?maybe only spirituality can give some answers?maybe theres something in the word “believe”?
i dont know…but still…science age is about 200yrs old…tibethan beliefs and techs are over 2000yrs old.Science is still pretty young,we dont know whats ahead…
Howgh!sorry for mumbling

Science has limitations and spirituality has limitations. If you believe dinosaurs were around longer than us does that make them better? I don’t see what would make tibetan beliefs any better than scientific beliefs, just because they had been around longer. I am not saying that it is one way or another, just that I don’t know whether science is “better” than tibetan beliefs or vice versa.

To this particular part about science vs tibethan stuff-i meant what would the world look like if we took their techs and ways of thinking instead of sciencific way.What if we started developing natural “powers"instead of making things out of iron and steel.That was just empty wondering
one of things that should actually be somwhere else i.e in :Hubbs ways of seeing…”
sorry it was just impulse done from dissapointment and drive for answers.

I have two levels of lucidity. One where I can tell it’s a dream with awsome realism. Then there is a once a month thingie to where I can’t tell I’m dreaming the dream is so damn realistic. It sounds scary, and well it is. A dream so real I though I died for good when I got shot. Anyway hope this helps.

well said, kmcdonald.