Not many people can visualize so strong that they can actually see what they are visualizing… Visualizing is pretty much the same as imagining anyways.
Yes, I’d like to think so, too… But I’m afraid it’s a bit different. Maybe, I just formulated it wrong… The problem is that I first grab the apple, and only then imagine it… But the visualizations used in LDing need imagining things without moving a finger. And that’s what I never can do, unless I am already half-asleep (and no more need any visualizations, in fact).
And what if you grab the apple with an imagined hand ?
ah ok ilana
well, why does it have to be an apple? because i know if you want to visualize an apple and you think it doesn’t work, that is because you in your mind want an exact duplication of the apple you just saw.
thy this one: try to visualisa an apple of another planet. What does it look like? how does it smell? what color does it have? how big is it? etc.
Very informative. I have had trouble visualizing before also.
This discussion has been splitted from the thread How long does it take, because it described a visualization technique, and could be useful for VILD.
hehehe… I’m not that good: I only have practice in such things as before I even knew what LD was I did self-hypnosis with NLP and the VAK (Visual-Auditive-Kinestesic perception modalities).
So when I visualize something I know that I have to bring myself in an altered state of consciusness (that is done as I’m allready ancored to the particular mindstate and I can induce it when needed) so that to keep focus and lower my critical capacity that can well hamper my visualization process.
Then I visualize using visual detail, then auditive detail and in the end the kinestesic detail (skin and gut sensations, taste and smell).
If you’re not good or have no training to go into altered states you coul integrate visualization technique to go into altered states and do both things in one: you cold immagine for instance that you are exactly where you are and you can silently think of 5 visual attributes that contain things that are completely true, then 5 auditive attributes, then 5 kinestesic attributes of what you are experiencing in the present state. Then you go on with 4, then 3, then 2 and whe you’re finished to one you should already be in altered states so you can go on visualizing for the VILD.
Example: I’m in my room, lying on my bed. I think to myself: “1)I see the light passing trough the window; 2) I see the white walls all around me; 3) I see the brown wood af my chair; 4) I see the different color of the books on my bookshelf; 5) I see the different pictures of the paintings I have in my room…” the I go auditive: “1) I hear the voices of the people in the other rooms; 2) I hear the nice singing of the birds outside in the garden; 3) I hear the low rumble of car trafic far in the streets; 4) I hear the muffled voice of the speaker of the tv set in an other apartment; 5) I hear the sound of my own breath…” then I go Kinestesic: “1) I feel my body lying on the bed; 2) I feel the back of my head slightly warmer where it connects with the pillow; 3) I feel the freshness of the morining air; 4) I feel the vibrations of my heart throug my chest; 5) I feel my toungue gently massaging my teeth and gums…” and then I tell to my self: “and as I view, hear and feel all these things I feel very relaxed…” and so on whith 4 attributes then 3 and so on until you feel in altered states (or if you like trance).
I find this technique the most effective to put you in the right state of mind for visualizations.
Visualization Assessment and Training Home Page :
Really? Does this mean that few people can see an apple with their eyes closed, even if it just a weak ghost image? Or does seeing constitute a crystal clear image of an apple.
Personally, I can see the apple, although not in very high detail. It is kind of a ghost image, but weaker in a sense. Hard to explain really.
Some days my visualization abilities are stronger than other days. The best times for me are usually after getting back from work, when im tired. Then if I focus on it, the images creates themself. I do not have to mentally force them into being.
If anyone know any good books or websites on how to improve visualization, i’d love to hear about it.
I think I have the same problem with visualizing…
Earlier I thought that I could visualize anything (6-7 years old), but I soon learned that I couldn’t.
An example I thought up:
I can imagine a man in a red coat. I can imagine what shape he’s in. I can imagine that he has yellow buttons. I can imagine how it would feel to touch him, hit him, even bite him! But if I were to say how many buttons he had; I would fail.
I can imagine smelling, feeling, hearing, tasting, but I can’t “see”.
Lucid_viking I just visualised that and he had as many buttons as I expected him to have. First of all the buttons were hazy and impossible to count, but when I expected to see five buttons I could clearly count them.
Visualisation seems to be similar to lucid dreaming, you see what you expect to see. If you don’t expect to see anything particular something unexpected will happen.
Also I expect that visualisation would be useful in enforcing your belief that you can lucid dream. If you have mental blocks preventing you from lucid dreaming it is probably possible to remove these blocks by visualising the blocks as physical walls and then smashing them down.
I think the tips in EWLD for practicing “visual-visualization” are pretty good. You know the look at something for a few moments, then close your evey and visualize it. Open eyes again, … and so on
I find ZeroSkyX’s suggestion to work really well for me. Sometimes in my LD’s I only need a faint idea of what I want, I look away, turn back, and there it is in all its vividly detailed splendor.
Interesting note - people were shown and apple and told to focus on it, then were subjected to positron emission scans. they were then told to visualise the apple (without it present) and then the positron emission scan tested again.
exactly* the same areas in the scan showed up. seeing something visually is exactly the same thing as imagining the same article. in stead of being frustrated at not being able to visualise it, perhaps you should flip-side and be astounded at the fact that you can already ‘see’ things, thus you are already visualising them
The brain doesn’t process negatives, so instead of going ‘danm i cant do it’, invert it and go ‘wow i can’t believe im already doing it!’. much higher chance of success/increase in visual ability.
- exactly isnt totally true, but for the laymen/sociality explination it is good as exact for this model of display
Best tip I can give for this. Put your emotions into it. Get immersed into it. If you are visualising getting stabbed or anything(jsut an example)feel the wound and the emotion of whats racing through your mind as you are having a metal blade inserted into your flesh. Girby out.
Listen to Noodle, he knows what he’s on about.
I believe I read something similar in my coursework about the same areas of the brain becoming activated.
Personally, I read a lot - particularly sci-fi and fantasy, and I have found that over the years this has had a tremendous impact on the quality of both my dreams and my ability to visualise. My advice would be to pick up a good book which demands the use of imagination (fantasy are great for this), and watch your visualisation skills skyrocket.
Interestingly, if I read sci-fi or fantasy while I’m on a caffeine high, my visualisation skills are incredibly acute - I’d say almost waking lucidity (Waking lucidity, eh Noodle? ). I can literally see the images in my imagination overlapping wherever I happen to be looking - but I guess this is kind of drug induced, even if it’s only caffeine.
I personally am new to Lucid Dreaming, and I have just started working towards those types of dreams. With that aside, I would say that if your reading something and the image comes to you, then run different thoughts through your mind as if they are being read to you or if you were reading them. Then that way you’re telling yourself what the object should look like. If you’re using your imagination to visualise something, then let your imagination run wild and say the apple should be green with purple dots and it should smell like cinnamon . Not necessarily an apple, but you know exactly what you want it to look like. I may not be right in thinking this, but it may work .
I merged your topic with this thread in which there were recent posts about visualization so that you can find some techniques.
my visualization skills are very poor and i would like to improve them. i would like to use visualization to help me concentrate during a WILD (like a spinning cube or something…at least until i get HI) or to help me perform a VILD. are there some exercises i can do to improve my visualization? techniques? anything?
thanks for the help
You’ll find some techniques in the thread I merged yours into. You can also search for visualization on the forum (yellow button on the top of the page). There is also another running thread about Visualisation aid.
And if you want to train your visualization skills there is a Visualization training game in the Playground too.
I can’t help you because visualization is not my strong point, but I hope some pros will give you some advices.
thanks for merging it and helping me out Basilus West, ill see how it goes!
strange how some people end up thinking about visualization, its not where you can actually see the object infront of you (that would be a hallucination) its thinking about it and forming it in your “mind’s eye”. visualization is used to convince your subconsious into believing something, some people dont understand this they believe that it is simply to keep your mind busy (which does happen and helps for falling asleep but isnt the actual reason for it).
the subconsious has no analytical reasoning and accepts what it is told, it understands pictures and feelings beter than words (which is why you want to incorporate all your senses into it if possible, some emotions also help).
visualization is mainly to make you SC to believe something because even if consiously doubt something but you SC does believe it then you SC overrides it. for example: i once tried a neat self hypnosis tape a few years ago before i got into LDing, while using they tape i began telling myself that i couldnt move my left arm, it was to heavy and stiff, and limp. i then tried to move my arm and i knew that there was nothing stopping it from moving but i was unable to, i tried as hard as i could and even used my other arm to throw it around but was unable to even twitch a finger. i ended up having to wait until the thirty minute tape ended before being brought out and having the effects removed.