I am an "old hag" veteran

Quest for Lucidity
1

Alright guys, listen up. I’ve found on here that lots of people don’t believe in “old hag” which is associated with sleep paralysis. Let me tell you that I am very experienced (unfortunately) with sleep paralysis and have had the old hag situation a few times.

The first time I ever experienced sleep paralysis was shortly after new years 2003. I was laying on my chest and woke up in paralysis. Since the bodies motor skills are deatched from the brain, I was unable to move no matter how hard I tried. The eyes are still able to move and I could look around – at my pillow, my clock, etc. The clock seemed to morph but I had my glasses off and so it was probably just from being blurry. The fear I felt was indescribable. I thought I was dying. Since I was lying on my chest, and since during sleep your breathing slows right down, it was very, very difficult to breath. I tried to lift my head but couldn’t. Of course, I immediately wanted to shout for my sister, but could not. Finally, after what seemed like eternity, my body was able to move again, I flipped the lamp on, and was on the verge of tears. I left the lamp on for the rest of the night, trying to stay awake as long as I could until finally I drifted off. I was scarred for days after that, not wanting to sleep, procrastinating falling asleep while lying in bed wide awake til 3 or later AM.

A short time after that, it happened while lying on my back. I never sleep on my back, mainly because I feel completely and utterly vulnerable, but had turned over onto it during my sleep. Upon waking, my eyes could move, but my body couldn’t. It was dark in my room, but I felt – was positive-- that someone was standing at my bedside looking down on me – a very negative feeling.

It’s now 2005, and I’ve had many, many experienes with SP. Very few, however, have been Old Haggish. Most of the time I wake up paralysed, fight it, remember to relax, and wake up being able to move again.

Last week though it happened again, but I feel that I am used to it now. I was paralysed, caught on my back once again, and while actually enjoying it (!!!) I thought I heard the door swing open and someone walking in. I wasn’t afraid really, I just didn’t want my sister to freak out if she saw me in that state, lol. So I closed my eyes, relaxed, and woke up.

My advice to anyone who has never experienced this, or who does but is still afraid of it is to relax. It’s imperative that you realize that everything that is going on is in your head. If you see things that aren’t normal, they are obviously just hallucinations. My only fears are the events or entities that I create in my mind. Relax, if you want, try to LD. But if you think bad thoughts, you’re going to project negative hallucinations. Think positive, and it can be a pretty fun experience. :good:

Make sure you visit my web log too for more dream logs. (I’m just starting out recording them.)

2

Some good tips there yeah! And welcome to the ld4all forum.

3

Yeah,Sp can be experience of pleasure.It is also in my case for two reasons- when i get it it allways ends up in me having Ld.Secondly just the feeling of having this thick electricity going up and down my body - i like it a lot…feels powerfull and mighty.
Only problem is i dont get it as often as id like to.

4

sometimes for me it is a painfull experience… twice it felt as though my brain was literally on fire. Another time it hit me while i was lying on my side, and ‘pulled’ me onto my back.

I’ve only seen the hag once, but have felt her presence numerous times. Last night I had the most powerfull SP experience of my life. When I opened my eyes I was naked on my back, in a UFO, surrounded by aliens. That got my heart beating LOL.

i made a little drawing of it
artpad.art.com/?iconwnt2cr0

5

Hi skidzz !
You made a great description of the phenomenon.
Don’t misunderstand what I said on another post : “old hag” is associated with some cases of “sleep paralysis” and it can be very realistic and frightening. There is no doubt about that.

But a lot of LDing beginners think they will meet the “old hag” when they’ll have a lucid dream, and that’s wrong. It’s a common confusion between “sleep paralysis” (the sleep trouble) and the state of paralysis you sometimes experience when you try to WILD.

As you seems to be very aware of what happens during SP, I’ve a little question : a lot of “sleep paralysed” people believe that their eyes are open during SP (because they feel they can see). I feel it to be wrong, and that their brain builds their bedroom, like in a FA. What do you think about ?

6

Who is this “Old Hag”? Is it a hallucination of an old person or something? I’ve heard on another forum that when someone goes lucid they see some demon. Is this the same thing?

7

nah it’s not a part of lucid dreaming as earlier posted… although it is pretty easy to conjure up some demons in a LD, the old hag is a sleep paralysis myth.

8

Hey there! Well, I think I’ll have to disagree with you on that one. I am dead sure that my eyes are open at times during paralysis. I had read that (in REM anyway) your eyes are able to move but the body is not. But, the awareness during paralysis is not the same level of awareness during waking reality. Therefore, in that state it is easy to hallucinate and strongly believe you are actually seeing it, and feel so afraid. It is almost like a false awakening, but I don’t think it is. Most of the time I wake up and see my body exactly how it is IRL, whether it’s under the covers, one leg is on top of another, arms folded, etc, and when I come to, I’m in exactly the same position. Also, the light outide is the same when I wake up. One of my stronger points would have to be a reality check. The last instance of SP, I looked to my extreme right and saw a transparent darkness shaped like a mountain. After reading about a reality check to close one eye and look at your nose – if you couldn’t see it you were dreaming, if you could see it you were awake – I realized that’s what it was, I was looking at my nose.

Anyone else experienced with SP? Let’s talk about this. Cos if it was a FA, I wouldn’t be so scared when it happens. But yeah, again to emphasize, you aren’t as aware as you are in waking reality, and it’s possible to hallucinate images that reflect the emotions you hold during paralysis.

9

i think in weaker cases of SP that you might actually be seeing your bedroom. But since it’s dark it is really hard to tell, and your attention is usually directed towards escaping.

one episode of SP, a hand(like “it” from Addams family) was walking around my bedroom. It jumped on my bed and started shaking my pillow. Definitely ALL in my head, believe me, our brains are capable of some wild feats. So I imagine emulating a dark bedroom is a tiny effort.

PS Skidzz, read my first post above about aliens /////\

10

Sircle,
What happens when it isn’t dark in your room cos your SPed at about 4:00 PM on a brilliant, sunshiney day?

Then those aren’t as bad, that’s for sure. A week or so into recovering from extensive jaw surgery (part of orthodontics) I was in bed in the living room (my family set it up a mini hospital room for me :good: ) and I had numerous false awakenings and finally woke up into SP. Same scenerio, sun pouring in, could see everything around me. I am certain that you have the ability to open and move your eyes during SP. :smile:

And that’s pretty crazy about the alien abductions… I wonder if most of the claims online, etc are just people with sleep disorders. lol

11

This morning around 8:30 AM I felt – what I thought was – sleep paralysis coming on. It’s hard to describe, I could feel… pulsations and a humming noise, and it grew more intense each time. So I turned onto my back (I’ve never been paralyzed on my side) and started to drift off. Soon enough I was in a light sleep and was dreaming. I then thought “Hey, do a reality check!” so I looked at my watch and it said “7:30” I was like “Hmmm, that’s about right…” looked away, then look back and it was all garbled. BAM!!! There was the loud sound, followed by the tingling sensation and I was paralyzed. I was able to slowly open my eyes and watch my eye lids as they went up. I could see my nose (a good thing) and able to look around the room. By now the noise and tingling was gone, I was just paralyzed, it was very calm! I tried to move like usual, but couldn’t. I thought I had made progress by sliding my foot toward my butt and turning a little on my side, but that was just an illusion. It did though, feel cool, cos it felt like I was on the slowest of the slow-mo’s, like in a jar of molasses! But when you’re paralzed, you’re paralyzed! I kept telling myself it was just a dream, and that when I opened my eyes again I’d be sitting at my bedside, but instead I just woke up, wasn’t able to go lucid. :neutral:

So later today I’ll start a topic about inducing sp (if that’s possible) or what I found to be the best way to fall into it. Later!

12

Interesting discussion, I’ll add my thoughts to it. First off, eyes indeed dont get paralysed, but thats the eyeballs, not the eyelids they are referring to here. However, this doesnt mean that in SP the eyes have to be always shut (since the severity of the SP can vary a lot!). I think both is possible, that eyes are closed and you dream up your entire bedroom (OBE’s and FA’s can happen too from this situation), or your eyes are open and you experience a mixture of reality and dream vision (hallucinations), like skidzz described. One other thing about this: take into consideration that you may know exactly in what position you are sleeping with your eyes closed too, so that in itself isnt a final argument for the “eyes had to be open” story. First of you can feel your body position and second, perhaps this information can also pass subconsciously into your hallucination (dream). Also the “look at the nose” RC isnt entirely failsafe since when you do this and you expect to be awake with eyes open but you are actually still asleep, you could probably see a dream nose in some cases.

I agree, but its not sleep disorders, just SP! SP isnt a disorder is it, and many people experience it (and yes, huge amounts of people also claim to be abducted lol!)…

13

I’m glad that I’ve only ever experienced SP once myself and it was fairly mild. I was so sleepy I just drifted off back to sleep. I was conscious of being totally unable to move but I just wasn’t that bothered about it

14

Well, I don’t think we’ll ever be able to find out if our eyes are open unless we conduct some kind of experiment. How about we brainstorm on this topic, and once we’ve worked out the details post it under a new topic where appropriate.

Ideas: get someone to write on a piece of paper a word or phrase in big letters. Get them to hang it above your bed, but make sure you don’t know what it is. Of course, you’ll need some light to be able to read it. Lie on your back for the night(s) and when you finally SP, try to read it. In the morning, check what was actually on it… You could also write something on construction paper, like red paper, and have like, “Green Giant” written on it, so when you wake up you have two variables to identify – what was the color and the word? If your eyes actually do read it though I’d just be afraid of hallucinating about the GG.

Other experiments could be for people who wear glasses. Take them off at night (I hope you do) get someone to post a picture of something above your bed. This way if you accidentally peak at it it’ll just be a blob. It’d be interesting to see if when you SP, your vision is “clear”.

Any other ideas? :content:

15

Medically speaking, SP is a sleep disorder, though 20% of the population experienced it at least once. 2% of the population experience SP with strong HH. This rate is closely related with the percent of so-called “alien abductions” : the Roper Survey, which was conducted in 1991, suggests that one out of every 50 Americans may have had UFO abduction experiences.
For instance, DM7 :wiske: had SP, and she thought she was alien-abducted ! :grin: (It was before she has known LDing.)

On the skeptic dictionnary, they said :

In France, we don’t have alien abductions. Sleep paralysed people generally believe they’re attacked by ghosts or demons. :devil:

16

Basilus West,
Thanks for clarifying that! I’ve always considered SP to be a sleep disorder, and it’s very interesting that people in America hallucinate aliens while people in France do not. Obviously culture has an influence. I’m just glad that I’m one of the lucky 18% of the people who don’t see hypnogogic hallucinations!!! (just eerie feelings sometimes)

17

So this means that being aware of SP is a disorder, right? Since each night, approximately 100% of the people are paralysed, so I dont think the phenomonon in itself is a disorder (I mean, for it to be a disorder, it should occur in less then 100% of instances, isnt it?).

18

First of all, I suppose that when they say “disorder”, it means it’s not considered as a disease. For instance, SP can be a symptom associated with narcolepsy, but it’s not categorized as an illness.
When they speak about SP as a disorder, they don’t speak about the paralysis phenomenon which occurs in every REM state, of course. What makes it a disorder is the fact that some people experience this paralyzed state when they’re just waking (or just before they fall asleep).
It’s seems that this problem is related with melatonin, which is directly involved in sleep and circadian cycles regulation. Thus, SP often occurs during adolescence, when melatonin rate is high, and disappears with ageing.

19

Ok thanx for explaining Basilus :smile: