Male circumcision.

The main article I pointed to addresses why it should be done earlier the better.

From my perspective in my society, it would be much more cruel to wait for the child to be old enough to be aware of his penis. You must understand, that the majority of males here are circumsized. The majority of males here would prefer to be circumsized! Therefore, why wait until your old enough to remember losing part of your penis, and remember the pain? Very many of us are very grateful that this is done at birth.

We do use anatesia now. We have came a long way during those thousands of years and that was the point of that sentence. That even without anastesia circumcised men grow up to be healthy and have healthy sex lives.

A child is old enough to have this done the moment they are born. The child usually goes to his parents or home shortly after. Any mother knows if the child is in pain. The pain is quickly over and actually the younger they are the quicker they heal.
If the child was left in a form of unbearable pain the mother would know. Our mothers are no different from your own, and if a mother really thought this would cause their child great pain the practice would not still be going on to this day.

don’t agree with it being cosmetic? or religious?
I suppose you would have to live in this culture to understand the reasons.
Living here I can’t find many more reasons other than cosmetics.
As for religious, just because we don’t setup a bah mitzvah style party doesn’t mean some don’t do it for religious reasons. With the procedure done right at birth and in a hospital, it is much more safe and efficient.
Although, I don’t agree with that example.
I think it’s more culture defined by religion that makes it so common here. At one time it was religious, but over the years it has became commonplace and expected of all males. Just because it has lost it’s relationship with religion in the hospital doesn’t mean religion didn’t play a part. Religion is what taught us about circumcision.

Funny you mention that. I was going to bring that up myself. :grin:
The ladies wanted this themselves badly, even at the expense of walking without pain. It was attempt to “be beautiful.”
The same can kinda be said about circumcision in Amercia because most here think an uncircumcised penis is ugly. Although most circumcised men will agree, this procedure doesn’t criple them in any way.

I totally disagree. If it’s going to ever me done, it MUST be done at birth. For very very many reasons already covered by the above article. The risk of complications and infection increases with age, the pain increases because the penis is more developed, the damage increases because the penis is more developed, the psychological impacts are increased because the awareness if more developed, the cost, the recovery time. Every risk and complication grows with age.

Many of the protest against circumcision you have read from holy reality, are from older men that had circumcisions. The younger the child the more efficient the operation.

They ARE asked!! The article’s poll was about the information provided when the doctor presents the question. Instead of the doctor asking “Circumcision? Yes or No?” the article is pointing out the doctor should give reasons for and against circumcision when he ask the question, and not just ask the parent “yes or no.”
Doctors expect the parents to educate themselves about the effects of circumcision, but it seems from the article that doctors should be prepared to educate them before they have to ask the question.

I understand the arguments made here by each of you. That an infant has little choice in the modification of one’s own body. I can easily find myself on your side of the debate.
However, I’m going to assume most of you are either uncircumcised or female. Besides Holy Reality, Where are the debates from the circumsized males? Shouldn’t their opinion be the only ones that really matter?

Atleast the person would have a choice over his own life then… Also as you see from the orginal poster, not all people are happy with being circumsized, but i guess they dont matter at all?? Also if this was banned, then i doubt the majority would go through with this operation at a later state, and then it would probably be way more accepted to not be circumsized aswell.

I am sure the baby experiences a great amount of pain afterwards aswell, the only difference is that they dont remember it later on…

This things should be voluntarely, not forced upon people…

And btw… why is female circumsizion so cruel, when this also done in quite a few countries aswell, as a tradition? I dont see much of a difference here… Both should not be done, unless the person want it him/herself, which means it can only be done after the person is old enough to know what he/she wants.

Think about this aswell… If a country had as a tradition to cut of their kids finger, would that make it okay aswell? where is the line drawn?

There is not much for me to add on the topic.

Circumcision has:
trandionally
culturally
religiously
comsmetically
and medically made itself into practical living.

It is PROVEN it is best done as soon as possible, at infancy.
If a child is old enough to choose if he wants it, he is too old. And how old is old enough to chooose? 18? 4, 7 , or 9 year olds can’t make such a decision. Waiting 1 year is removing most of the benefits of circumcision. For it to have the best benefit it must be done at birth. Waiting is useless and by then shouldn’t be done. Parents must make all decisions for children until they can make their own.

American doctors DO take the most precaution with pain and risk reduction at a higher standard than all of the previous thousands years of practice.

If cutting off a pinky finger were to have this historic backgroud with included proven medical benefits, then American’s would probably resemble the Simpsons even more.

Some people are not happy with brown eyes, and some people don’t like their vagina or healthy uncircumcised penis. Lots of people are not happy with their body, or life in general. It’s not circumcisions fault.

My greatest argument against this thread is the authors intentions with it, and the reactions it took. I’m a person that is totally against abortion at all cost, even rape. I can see each of your arguments against a person’s right to chose. … . but why is this, circumcision, being used as slander towards Americans.
Circumcision is best done young, and parents have the freedom to chose for their young son.
IT IS CHOICE!
why debate that?

It seems relativly unimportant when compared to:
American children abducted and being sold on the black market overseas, Child prostitution in Cambodia, and there is this much reaction over what? A faster organsim? More sensation during sex?? because some don’t want their sons to clean smelly “cheese” from their uncircumcised penis their whole life to prevent cancer from themselves or their partner?

It’s appalling to see the excuses people use to slander America. Reading over this thread I can just hear people’s pencils adding to their “another reason why I can tell American’s I hate them” list. and that is exactly why this thread was created.

oh DA i dont feel that way, that it is another reason to hate americans.

i understand now why it is done. And i understand why ppl have decided to do it at a young age. Yes ofcourse why wait to later if you can have it over with at a young age.

I also thank you for clearing things up a bit from the first post. when i first read it i was totally shocked.

it is just another reason to ponder. A possibility to have.

BUT i do think that everything has an up and a down side.

for me, i still think that ppl should decide it for themselves. And what is old enough? well, what about adult!

But then again i can also imagine adults having it done, discovering all the advantages and deciding if they ever have a son they want to give those advantages to their son and as early as possible.

the problem is that if you have been circumsized at birth you have never known better. So i can imagine that you like it the way it is and are happy with it. Wouldnt have it any other way and definately wouldnt have it done at an older age.

but those who havent had this surgery and see circumsized, they cannot imagine how that feels.

I am still not convinced circumcision is necessary, but after all your arguments i see why - if you think circumcision is is a good thing - you can probably do it best as early as possible.

lol… omg. you guys are pathetic. I am circumsized (sp?) and glad to be. It is very unatractive IMO to have all that nasty skin that makes your penis look like a turtle poking his head out of his shell for the first time in 10 years…

That stuff was probably written by some guys angry at their parents for not having them circumsized as infants and they are made fun of by women and are afraid to have it done now… lol (jk)

all i gotta say is… it didnt happen to me, sex still feels GREAT and im not complaining. :wink:

hey and circumsised or not, at least we don’t have to give birth…

owwwwch!!!

it seems to me that the pro-circumcision people on this thread have a very aggressive/violent way of communicating about this subject. that should say enough by itself.

The thread here does touch on a horrible sitiuation related to circumcisions, and that’s mistakes during the procedure. The casual decision of circumcision is a problem, and the risk with possible mistakes involved could be life altering/destroying. 1 such mistake a year should be enough to enrage everyone.

but please don’t believe the hype. Doctors don’t sneak such a procedure by the parents, and there are pain reduction methods. Circumcised men aren’t “crippled” or sexually handicap, and the amount of mistakes are not high enough to cause alarm.

lol. I wasn’t being aggressive… just stating my opinion with a voice. I am just saying… I didn’t have a choice to be circumsized. i just was… and I have no problem with it at all. no complications, or malfunctions. So, therefore, since i have no problem with being circumsized, i am not against it. because i find nothing wrong with having it done.

as I read more of the posts I find the people saying “how dare they inflict such tortue on infants! oh my!” what a crock. I was cirrcumsized as an infant and i don’t even remeber it or it even hurting. there for, who really cares? I didn’t realize that there were actual mistakes going on and babies actually dying from it… kinda weird. i don’t see how they would die unless they bled to death. but as for the pain factor, It didn’t hurt me one bit that i remeber. :content:

hahaha
i wouldnt never let anyone get near my penis with a knife
ev0r…
just common sense really

Does that make it okay, just because you forgot the pain?? If that is your reasoning, then it must be ok to torture people aswell, as the pain will be forgotten/lost when they are dead anyways… I am not against circumsizion at all, i am against that people are forcing this onto people, without asking what they want… Adults can go through with this procedure aswell…

The medical benefits can be argued, cause most of these studies is very biased… if you read around, you find that there are loads of info both against and for circumsizion.

Agression? I don’t see much here, but I welcome you to pick through this entire thread and present every sign of agression you find. For me, I find the agression in the replies of the people against circumcision.

So, are you now concluding from a two page thread that circumcised men must be more violent too? I live in a town with 1 murder in the last 10 years, and you are calling us aggressive now too?

and I’m suppose to just sit here and believe all this, when I’m an American Male living through it. I have a voice with credit towards the topic, and I speak here only to counter balance the debate.
There is nothing aggressive about standing up for what you feel is truth. I’m not going to sit here and watch this thread not being spoke for. I’m sure most people wouldn’t give this silly thread time, but I can’t let such an image be painted upon myself and America.

i love you :happy:

agh, you people are like rabbits on speed. :tongue:

more like turtles on dope…

dark matter put it quite nicely…

And can we all agree that this operation is not necessary?
And don’t interpret “unnecessary” as bad… all is fine if circumcision is not done and most likely fine if it is…

For me it all boils down to choice…
I would never force my child in major decisions like circumcision, baptism etc. They would have to decide for themselves. If religion/tradition or whatever requires it to happen when they’re infants, well that’s too bad…

You wouldn’t remember the pain even if they amputated your leg… but you would feel pain as it happened

“well that’s too bad?”

That is why you are happy in Sweden, and I am happy in The United States.

In the US we even allow the witches that are locked in prison to practice their religion at Witching Hour. That means on some nights around midnight 11pm-1am that they are allowed to go outside and chant around some fire. . . . . may sound strange to some … but we don’t say “well that’s too bad” in reguards to religion here. . . even for prisoners that have had most of their rights taken away.

That’s kind of a “not-very-nice” generalization. Yeah, some Americans are morons, but not all.

I guess I could’ve put that another way… :neutral:
What I meant was that… for example if my partner is practicing religion X. And that religion requires her child to also be of religion X and undergo ritual Y at birth. I would have a problem with that since I want my child to find her own way of life and discover the religion/philosophy she feels comfortable with…

I’m not sure what you want to say with that witch example, that I / Sweden is somehow not fully for the freedom of religion? I’m very much for it. You can worship whatever you want, the devil/god/spongebob :bow: but don’t force it upon others.

But yeah, my philosophy of “practice your religion freely but don’t force it upon others” is a problem in for example this case, circumcision…