NID method, No Induced Dreams method.

from what i understand, the idea is that when you do get an LD, from whatever reason, you dont do anything other than what the dream wants you to do already, and by doing that your SC eventually, with enough LDs, gets so used to the idea of you being lucid in the dreams, that your SC makes you lucid by default, like that was the normal thing for your mind to do from the beginning. then, by building on that, you go from being lucid in dreams by default, to getting a gradual increase in the amount of control you can exert on the dreams, without your SC resisting it, like it normally would. eventually, after a truckload of LDs, your SC makes you lucid by itself, and gives you practically complete control over your dreams, just because its used to it.

was that a correct assumption, or did i miss the point entirely?

Yeah, basically. You trust your subconscious more, you get more control and lucid more often.

alright, I understand the non-active initiation of the LDs, but the non-control seems kind of odd. What’s the point exactly? A brilliant dream recall will make LDs much easier to have without even thinking about having LDs, this is true, but once in the dream, controlling it is half the fun. I like to go where I wish in LDs, and not simply get swept around. The brilliance of LDs is the conscious control of your own world, is it not? To simply be aware of the dream, and not interact seems like a bit of a waste.

I may be way off in my understanding of this, so please tell me if I am, and I’ll do my best to try and grasp it.

Because once you start trying control dreams, your subconscious will start producing dreams that make up for the fun of control. Your subconscious starts controlling dreams in the same way you want to, or something.

hmm, very interesting. I believe I understand now. Hard to put into words.

I’ll have to experiment with it a little.

I believe I have had LD’s like this (if I understand everything right). Although I am not as lucid as when I take full control of my dreams, the dreams are almost always more fun, because everything is less predictable. When I take full control, I have to think about my next step, what do I do now?
When having a LD like described in this topic, I can still determine (just by thinking about it) in which way I want the dream to develop (kissing with a girl, street racing), but the actual development of the ‘story’ is less predictable (more realistic), because I don’t stop the flow of the dream by taking control of everything. I have less chance of waking up (from excitement) as well. Only minus is that you miss the ‘kick’ of full control of your dream, because I am actually ‘low lucid’.

I’m startign to use the technique. In the past days I had a lucid dream (rare enough :tongue:) and decided to go with the flow. However, very shortly afterwards I lost my lucidity and also my dream recall. I never had any long LDs yet anyway (in fact, my first was one of my longest mid-level LDs so far). If you find yourself lucid, should you use dream stabilisation / prolonging techniques like rubbing hands while using this method?

Also, I am not sure this tech requires you to stop using RCs or other induction methods, as long as you don’t exercise too much control while actually lucid.

i am wondering (and i think basilus west and MedO may b on similar topics) whether this is an advanced technique or a beginner technique. it seems in order to do this u must have LD’s in the first place, and be fairly experienced at getting them. i am a newb to the whole subject, and have only had “.5” LD’s so far. so should i try other techniques so that i can get LD’s in the first place? and do u think, like MedO said, that doing induction techniques while doing this will work? or do u think they will interfere somehow?

As it was also mentioned before, my thoughts on this are that instead of being an induction method, this is just an idea of what you can do with your lucid dreams; this idea will probably work better for those who easily have lucid dreams, rather than for those who have difficulty with it to begin with.

Since lucid dreams come easily enough for me, I suppose I might as well just give it a try and see where this takes me. However, another thought just came to mind. After taking the time to work on this method, to the point that one has many lucid dreams, what is the point in the end, if you just spend them all passively like any normal dream? It takes most of the purpose out of the reason why most people try to have lucid dreams in the first place. Their goals are normally to gain enough control during their dreams so that they can live out whatever fantasies that they can’t in real life.

Even with that paradoxic part of your idea, I still think you have an interesting viewpoint on the subject. It seems to be worth a try, so I’ll go ahead and see what happens over time.

I think the point is that you can slowly increase control once you have many “passive” LDs.

The point is that the more of these dreams you have where you give up control and go through it like a normal dream, your normal dreams will become like lucid dreams. Your dreams will start becoming the fantasies you want to live out. So your dreams will get to the point where you don’t need control in the first place, I think.

Dream stabilization and prolonging techniques isn’t required as far as I know. Dreams ‘crashing’ like that stems from you taking control in the first place, so if you never take control… Then the dream will stop when it will stop anyways.

Induction methods like WILD should be okay. RCs… I don’t think so. That implies you breaking the ‘reality’ of the dream. Dreams have an unmistakable feeling that you should use to get lucid instead.

I tend to do this when I find myself dreaming, because my dreams have a really anoying tendency to crash if I try to exert any control over them.

Also, it can be fun to drift around and just observe what weird things my SC throws at me. :content:

Hehe, yeah. This makes your subconscious throw more fun weird things at you. :smile:

Well, do I? I’ve been having trouble with recall because I haven’t been writing in my DJ as of late until I get the answer. Also… The nagging, it burns at my mind everytime I think about my DJ. Please answer my question. :bored:

As far as I understand, there are two good ideas here:

  1. it looks like the prolonging technique I called “to take the dream for granted” in this post. It’s very difficult to explain. In a LD, you generally want to grasp things with your attention, so that they won’t flee. But you don’t do this IRL, you take reality for granted: reality won’t flee. It’s the same thing in LD’s. I didn’t know it could be used as an induction technique in LD’s.

  2. Less lucidity makes your dreams less realistic, thus more fantastic. You have less free-will but you have more super-powers.

Yeah, writing in the DJ is fine. Dream recall techniques don’t conflict with this.

i admit i’m new to this, but u can still have high control at high lucidity, can’t u? at lower lucidity u may have more abilities because u r not thinking clearly and therefore ur mind is less restricted by what it automatically assumes is and is not possible; but given that your degree of lucidity is based on your degree of awareness that the dream isn’t real, then shouldn’t a person who has the confidence be able to exert as much control in a high-lucidity LD? it seems to me that theoretically, the only thing that prevents u from using super-powers in LD’s is your own mind’s reluctance to believe that it is possible. it would seem this state of mind could b countered by either thinking unclearly (as u might at a low lvl of lucidity) or by very clearly understanding just how unlimited your environment is. also, when u r thinking clearer, u can take more advantage of what control u hav.

That is true. You can have high control with high lucidity. However, this will eventually lead to the dream fading out I believe, because the more control you exert the more your dream starts falling apart.

Of course, with this method, if you start being ‘lucid’ by default, then, once you are in that state, you could override your SC and just TAKE control. I don’t know if it fits with the philosophy of this method, but I think people might be put off by the idea of getting to the point of being able to LD ‘at will’, and then not controlling it…

This sounds kind of like what I’ve been doing, (except in ND’s I’m allready like you said, I can think logicly and even use powers when I think of it, and not realize I’m dreaming,) but for the past two weeks I’ve been just going to bed really tired and I’ve had at least one lucid dream every night except one! I haven’t been focusing on getting the dream as much as staying lucid once I’m there, (just saying that word, “lucid” seems to help a lot when I do realize I’m dreaming, and I mean a LOT.) As soon as I become lucid I’ve been doing like a million reality checks and looking for dream signs so I can recognise faster them in the future. This is helpful beyond belief, I keep realizing I’m dreaming earlier and earlier into them, sure doing all that takes time away from the more fun stuff but it pays off. I’ve always been good at this but I’ve never gotten them so frequently like this… :content: :hurray: