There is this type of dreaming that is neither lucid nor non lucid. It’s when you do realize that you’re dreaming though you’re not aware of your waking life and your past. It feels like a very vivid ND and not like a LD. The basis of the dream is the same as a ND though for a big part you’re in control and you can make decisions according logic thought or own preference but not thoroughly thought through like you would do in a LD.
What is the exact definition of being lucid? It can’t be just knowing that you’re dreaming, because this other type of dreaming would be classified as LD then but it clearly is not the same. In my opinion lucid is knowing that you’re dreaming, awareness of your waking life and past, a clear mind as if you were awake.
I won’t accept this other type of dreaming, where you are aware of the fact that you’re dreaming though not having awareness of your waking life, to be named low lucid. It just doesn’t come close to the feeling and atmosphere a LD gives. Neither can it be named a vivid ND in my opinion because this type of dream doesn’t just happen, like ND, to the person who’s having this dream, it’s created consciously for a significant part by the person.
I hope some of you know what I’m talking about here…
That is the definition. There is just many levels of lucidity. Not all LDs are the same. What you are talking about could be described as semi-lucid; some parts of it are lucid.
I’ve been everywhere in the grey zone between lucid and non-lucid and it is often hard to put a label on your experience.
I think I understand what you are talking about, but can you concretize what exactly you understand under “awareness of waking life”? Do you mean being concious of the fact that one’s laying in the bed? Or being able to recollect specific aspects of the RL? Or is being able to remember your current LD goal enough?
What you discribed seems to be the same type of dream which I classify for myself as FLD in my DJ entries. These are dreams where I say or think stuff which I can’t really say or think without somehow knowing that I’m dreaming. Like, I read something in a dream and thought: “Oh, I should try to memorize this so that I can look it up later when I have woken up to see if what I saw in this dream was true!”
I bet that almost everyone would say, “Hey, this was a LD, you knew that you are dreaming, though you were low lucid”. No, I wasn’t lucid at all. If I am really not sure whether what I dreamt was a true LD or just a FLD (what I call FLD) then I concentrate on the feeling. The feeling, like you said, is a different, and there is no “realization shock” which one (at least I) usually gets when realising that it’s all a dream.
After all, I like my FLD’s, I’m always seeing them as a good sign that I’m close to reach real lucidity.
I suppose it depends on ones own personal definition at to what qualifies as “lucid” and what doesn’t. For example, for me, being a novice, if I can attain a level of awareness in a dream where I can say to myself “Wow, I’m dreaming. I’m actually lucid!” I would classify that as a lucid dream, regardless of being able to recall my waking life or having control of any dream elements. In other words, if I have control over my actions and choices, I would consider that a successful lucid attempt, while other, more experianced people here would possibly classify that as “low-level” due to not having any control over anything but normal human actions.
With awareness of your WL I mean that one is aware of physically lying in bed and knowing you have a waking life outside of this dream. Remembering a current LD goal isn’t enough.
I see what you mean and I am with you on the “realization shock”, if you don’t experience this switch it wasn’t a LD. Except for when you do WILD of course since it doesn’t originate from a ND.
I wouldn’t call it a FLD. It’s so hard to define and categorize, maybe I shouldn’t do that so much. Anyway… I name a dream a FLD when I actually thought in my dream that I was lucid, convinced that I was and then when waking up realizing that I tricked myself. Whereas the other type of dreaming I know I’m dreaming but without the realization shock. What’s different to a LD as well is, I’m almost always a DC and not myself. An example (from last night): I was a young girl riding a horse with some other people in a desert, at some point the other people left and I had to take care of their horses. I realized that a horse isn’t the best animal for a hot dry desert, thought about it for a very short moment and decided to change the horses into camels. I did this because I knew I was dreaming, a sort of laid back realization and not the “shock”. Other example is being able to pause, fast forward and rewind in these dreams because I know I can since I’m in control though not lucid. Not actively, but passively… if that makes sense. Like, I am dreaming, i don’t like where it’s going based on my feelings and I rewind the dream to change the course of events without thinking it through.
@ WASD, wouldn’t name it a semi LD either since you’re never actually lucid, not one part of it.
Maybe we should introduce a new name for this sort of dream…
Lucid dream - a dream where one realises that he’s dreaming.
That’s it. To have a LD you just need to realise it. No need to recall WL stuff, no need to have any control of the dream. If you know it’s a dream, then it’s a lucid dream.
On the other hand, FLD’s are dreams where you do the stuff you would do in your lucid dream, but without realising that it is a dream.
I hope that clears something. If you’re lucid, but don’t remember anything from WL and can’t control the dream, it’s still a LD.
I disagree with the first and agree with you on the second.
For me it’s like this: In every LD you know that you are dreaming. But not every dream where you know you are dreaming is a LD.
Bird, according to what you said about awareness of waking life, I wouldn’t have had a LD yet. Maybe one or two, but not more, since I am rarely aware that I’m actually laying in my bed when I’m lucid (maybe I just don’t care enough and rather concentrate on the dream itself).
Oh yes, no realization shock when having a WILD, I forgot to mention this
I agree completely with you that it’s hard to define, therefore I think that discussion like this one are really difficult since everybody has a different understanding of terms like LD or FLD which makes it hard to discuss.
But this is just my opinion and I am curious to see how this thread will end
Why not, that’s the point of a lucid dream.
If you think being lucid does not automatically grant you a lucid dream, please explain further and/or give examples of such dreams.
Being lucid is (for me) different from knowing that I’m dreaming.
Sometimes I know that I’m dreaming, maybe subconsciously or in a dark corner of my brain, without getting what this means, so without being lucid.
For example the dream I described previously:
Or:
I was with two friends in a train and we looked at our watches. I said: “This is a dream, the watches won’t work.” Again, without being or getting lucid.
I agree with Leijona, you explained it quite clear to me. Sometimes you know you’re dreaming but you don’t really KNOW that you’re dreaming. Passive and active knowing. Only the active knowing makes you lucid.
I guess you’ve got a point. I’m used to doing WILD so automatically I’m very aware of my WL and where I am physically (which can be, btw, very annoying when the LD isn’t stable yet… thinking of the physical body for just a fraction of a moment can ruin it )
[size=59]I’m off for holidays for a week so won’t reply for a little while [/size]
What you are talking about are FLD’s. In a dream you may say things like: “This is a dream” without realising that you’re dreaming. That’s normal for FLD’s.
What I’m talking about is realising that you are dreaming and that’s not by simply making statements “This is a dream”. You have to realise that with your mind.
So to sum up my position: Realising that you are dreaming (becoming lucid) makes the dream a Lucid Dream. You don’t have to remember anything from WL, you don’t have to control the dream, you don’t even have to say “This is a dream”. The realisation itself is enough.
I think we kind of lost each other in this thread…
I don’t mean the kind of dreams where you say to yourself “I am dreaming” but you aren’t realizing it with your mind, which are imo indeed FLD. What I mean are dreams where you don’t say to yourself that you’re dreaming etcetera, but you know you are. Imo there is a big difference between LD, FLD, the sort of dream I started talking about in this thread and ND. Anyway, this is not going anywhere I think… it’s too much based on so many layered personal experiences… Wondered with creating this tread if some people knew what I was talking about and I think Leijona comes very close. I’m just interested in this other category of dreams because I sometimes prefer them over LD, how silly that may sound (they are very comfortable )
and not the “shock”. Other example is being able to pause, fast forward and rewind in these dreams because I know I can since I’m in control though not lucid. Not actively, but passively… if that makes sense. Like, I am dreaming, i don’t like where it’s going based on my feelings and I rewind the dream to change the course of events without thinking it through.
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