Random idea: LD4All Community Abstraction Project

This is one of those ideas that came to me while I was daydreaming in the shower (read: the best kind of idea), so forgive me if things aren’t worded exactly properly or if this is all just nonsense. A few people in the chatroom seem to like the idea, though, so I figured I’d get the forum’s opinion as a whole.

I was dwelling on some of the questions we get asked by new people in chat. The number one newbie question is, of course, “How do I shot WILD?” [/badmeme]. I started typing a tutorial/rant on reality checks and visualization, but some other users were quick to point out that not all new WILDers read about WILD on our forum, so nothing can really stop that question. The other big question from new people is one that comes right after the first or second LD: “So I was lucid, and I tried to , but nothing happened…?” When we ask how they tried to do it, the answer is usually “I just tried to” or some other answer equating to trying to use pure willpower. Of course, this is possible, but even experienced LDers don’t use willpower every time, often relying on abstractions such as the lucid pill.

This led me to the idea of the Community Abstraction Project (henceforth, CAP). It would be a subforum dedicated to creating abstractions not just to which we can direct stuck, willpower-bent newbies (don’t lie by saying willpower doesn’t work, of course), but also as a way to inspire the community into new LD ideas and to create a system for every LD4All member to incorporate into his/her LDs if he/she chooses to. For example, I’ve typed a short example for the most famous abstraction, the lucid pill, with four colors and four effects. I would post it as a sample, at which point other members could expand upon it with more colors and effects. The ones users like most or find the most practical for LDs can be declared the official LD4All choices. Community topics like this would be stickied.

Beyond that, users could create their own topics in the subforum with their own personal abstractions that perhaps aren’t practical enough to fit whatever community topics are open, but may be of interest to other dreamers anyway or hold special meaning to the user. Other users can respond to these topics saying which ones are good ideas or reporting personal experiences with them. I would probably post a sample topic of a few of my own abstraction ideas just as with the community example, so that the format would be clear to all. Most individual topics would not be stickied, unless a large number of users find themselves using a certain person’s abstractions and having enjoyable success.

There are upsides for all sorts of users in such a project.* Newbies have an area to see different ideas beyond willpower (again, without ditching it entirely) for accomplishing LD goals, or seeing new goals altogether. Others in our chatroom have a quick link that they can show newbies to inspire them or to convince the more stubborn members that they should ease into it with abstract methods.

  • The community has a resource for ideas on the tasks they’ve struggled on in the past, or for finding new tasks.
  • Experienced users not only would be able to pass on some of their in-LD tricks to us lesser dreamers (where before the project, discussion would usually be about induction methods), but also gain insight into the dreams of others and attempt to use tools of other experienced dreamers.
    The downside would be that it’s work for whoever’s running it. :razz: There’s also the fear of somebody posting things that aren’t abstractions or generally posting stupidity, but the fact that the first response won’t necessarily be the official choice for community topics and the fact that personal topics wouldn’t be stickied leading to stupider topics falling to the bottom of the list should curtail such users.

So that’s my random idea of the day. Again, a few people commented in chat, but I’m looking for broader feedback as well in case this is something that really would interest the user base.

Thanks for letting me know about this, Thorn.

Well, I really like the idea, I’ve nothing against it, but, according to my experience in good ideas, is the risk of it being too hard to get done.

The whole abstraction ideas: e.g. expanding the lucid pill for other things will probably work, we have to put efforts on it.

What we might also need and I’ve been talking about this for years is: some way to better categorize our knowledge here, so it would be easier to hand it quicker to newbies and ourselves.
Newbies don’t want to read a whole thread, they just want to know what to do.

We also might need a new FAQ, something that makes newbies more aware about how hard it to attain success with WILD before asking a lot of questions.

However, I’m not certain about the new subforum, this would be spread into General Lucidity and Quest For Lucidity, we would need some way to tag the topics that are related to the CAP (maybe just pinning is not enough).

Anyway, good luck and keep thinking.

Well, that would be why I said it might need a subforum. :razz: Otherwise, whatever board it’s mixed with could get swamped with topics, or in the opposite case, the project gets hidden in the depths of the board if it’s ever not active for a while and general knowledge topics are made that push them back a few pages.

With regards to what you said about newbies not wanting to read a thread and wanting an answer, I feel that such an attitude wouldn’t be conducive to lucid dreaming anyway. There are too many little intricacies involved to make everything a summary. I think a project like this would be lengthy but fun, hopefully making it easier to read without falling asleep.

Yes, it would take effort. But then again, it takes effort for us to answer questions repeatedly in chat, yet we still do it.~ I don’t think it would be hard as you said it may be, though. Effort and difficulty are two different things.

While I think this idea has its merits, I would like to point out that we already have all of these things. We have a whole section of FAQ’s on different methods, and an Article space full of other ideas. The community already has these resources, and access to each others dreams. Chat is for people to gain further knowledge, and the community also has access to these guides and articles to link new people to.

Tggtt, we do have an Guided Tour. And yes, I understand this needs an update, but we have many other topics like it that categorize our knowledge. We even have a topic on Links and short descriptions of all new and known techniques.

Thorn, I do not believe there are many Abstractions as you think there are. A lot of people actually do rely on willpower. I don’t think the whole thing deserves a separate subforum, but I wouldn’t be against a BIG topic for it (if there isn’t one already floating around). It does not take a lot of effort for people to answer questions in chat. Not everyone is on at the same time, therefore they aren’t “repeatedly” answering.

I honestly think a subforum would be too much. What you are talking about could easily fit into one topic without the work it would take to clean up a mess of a subforum. Also, if there is a BIG topic on such thing, in the future there will most likely be a guide that condenses all these Abstractions into a neat place for people to find. As someone who works with the guides, that’s just my two cents.

Also, for future reference this topic should be in Suggestions, not Lucid Adventures.

^ I hadn’t seen that guided tour link before, and now that I think about it, you are probably right in that there aren’t that many ways to go about it; things would get similar pretty quickly. This is probably why I should think things through more before making posts so long. Random thoughts I had later in the night while doing other things didn’t seem to point to this being a successful idea, either, and leaned more towards it getting out of hand. Seeing the presence of a guided tour on the site already cemented those thoughts.

If I had an option to lock/remove the topic, I probably would, since this really is aiming for something with little substance behind it.