I don’t think there’s anything wrong with mistreating DC’s. If there’s someone you really hate it’s natural to fantasize about horrible things happening to them so you might as well have fun while you’re dreaming as well.
People still exist IRL though, if you close your eyes.
It might be a little silly, but has anyone asked a DC if they think they should have rights? It would be interesting to see what answer you get. For those of you who believe their more than just recreations, it could give you a good answer.
Nice post chaos_guy 
Would be fun to try yes!
I must say when i absorb dc’s or make clones of myself from them
I never feel or notice any resistence from them!
Or any feeling whats however.
Resistence is futile lol 
You could also reverse the question!
Is it possible to project dc’s in your dream from pure association, be it from conscious or subconscious activity?
Jeff
That would be a cool experiment to try. It’s something that would never have occurred to me. I always looked at my LD ‘s as my world and anyone else in my dream can just live with it.
Personally I would never rape and kill. Even if it was just a DC, I would still feel guilty and though killed an idea.
Many posts in this topic have surprised me. People say that their DCs aren’t real so they should be able to do whatever they want to them, despite what it is. Whispa wrote about it being normal to fantasize about awful things happening to people you don’t like, stating that you might as well have fun in the dream. I agree it’s normal to have negative feelings for people but I just feel it’s wrong to violently express them in one’s dreams. If we have problems with people, wouldn’t it be so much better to transcend those negative feelings instead of acting on them (even if they are in a dream)? I don’t think it would resolve the problem. Feeling enjoyment and satisfaction out of hurting somebody, whether it’s a DC or not, doesn’t seem like a healthy way to express your feelings. I guess this is the wrong generation to preach to, though, what with all the violence in video games and shows/movies. We’re all so desensitized to killing that it no longer seems wrong or perverse. Most people would scoff at the idea of hugging your enemy instead of fighting them but I think taking the higher road (even in dreams) would yield better results.
I can identify with both sides on this topic, but I obviously lean toward the “Hurting a DC? What?” side. Like Technodreamer said, I’d feel guilty and awful about doing so. Real or not, they repesent reality and I don’t wanna go and f*ck with that.
r3m0t said:
Not everything requires proof. Sometime just the belief in something is enough. Not long ago Lucid Dreaming was considered to be fiction and books on this topic were often found in the occult section of book stores. Now I find books on ld ing in dreams, self improvement, and even religious sections of book stores in my area. For that mater things like meditation, and yoga were once scoffed at. Now many doctors recommend meditation, yoga and Tai Chi classes to there patients. Over the next century maybe someone will take the time to prove that things like OBE, or shared dreaming are possible. Personally I don’t know what I believe in regards to these things but, I continue to look at them with an open mind.
Once, in an LD, an evil criminal DC entered my house and threatened me with a gun. I created a gun in my hand and shot him just before he shot me. For some reason, I felt bad about it.
However, I never have had any problem using telekinesis to throw a “bad guy” across the room.
I shot somebody in a dream once. Someone I knew very well. It was a lucid dream, but low-level, so I really didn’t know what I was doing. I did feel pretty bad, but I was also kind of happy because I made the gun appear.
What makes killing bad in real life is not the act of killing itself, but the consequences of killing like the person suffering as they die, them not being able to live again, the effect of death on the family etc… In an LD none of these consequences exist unless you make them exist.
Killing someone in a LD doesn’t necesarily mean they have to suffer and the permanently die. That only happens if you will it to happen. That is why killing in a dream is more like killing someone in a computer game. Without the negative consequences of killing, it isn’t really very meaningful at all, except as a handy way to make someone go away.
When killing in a dream could be considered ‘wrong’ would be when you actively kill someone while bellieving the consequences of killing will happen, as that would be much more like real life, where one has to accept consequences of their actions.
I’m sure much the same thing could be said about rape in a dream…
Hmm I think that one reason for the difference between raping and killing (even in a dream) is that there CAN be some justification for killing. (i.e. Someone is going to kill your baby) but I would argue that there is no justification for rape at any time.
Plus maybe it is as you said, we are just more exposed to killing as a entertainment in movies and video games.
Interesting things to ponder.
ypm.
well if they dont have feelings why not do these things to get rid of anger?
or even if you want to try it out and feel what its like to do it, i say its perfectily fine to do if if they are just “peices” of your own imagination!
anyone agree? 
It would seem to me that there are two good points that people raise that could suggest DC’s should have some “rights.”
- Since many of them seem almost as real as people IRL, it sounds scary to totally assume they have no existence that counts for any rights, and,
- If they are parts of you own “self” manifested in the dream, it may be better to treat them (yourself) well.
So, question/suggestion …
Has anyone tried asking DC’s for permission to do whatever to them?
This would be ideal in my mind if we could remember to do it, and as long as they weren’t ridiculously objecting to everything.
Peace,
Sruthan
I have come to my conclusion about the rights of DCs. Last night I had an LD where I was flying above some large city and I touched down next to a church. I walked in and it was actually a coffee shop full of people. I attempted something I read in Lucid Lab… I tried to listen to all of the conversations at once.
I was unsuccessful, but then some one shouted by name. I turned around and it was the oracle from the Matrix. She said “We have something to tell you.”
I said “YEAH!?”
She put my hands in hers and looked me in the eyes and said “We WANT you to have sex with us.”
I was baffled because in no way was I think about sex looking at the oracle. Suffice to say I didn’t engage in sex, but I was left with the impression that your ND, LD and DC are there for you. The way she said it was like she knew we were having this discussion on here and she was answering this question. It wasn’t like she was telling me, but instead answering a question.
Another reason I found this outrageous is because my DC rarely speak, let alone speak to me when they aren’t answering a question.
IN MY CONLUsION TO THIS TOPIC, ANSWERED BY A DC HERSELF:
You can do what ever you want to whom ever you want in your dreams. It seems that DCs believe that is what dreams are there for. However, while you are not bound by societal morals etc, I would believe that is you for go your own basic beliefs and engage in activites that you would deem harmful to your soul, then it probably isn’t best to do those things. However, clearly you wouldn’t be doing them if you thought there was something wrong with it 
They have no rights because they are not real. But, sometimes the dream is your subconsious trying to spell out problems for you. So, sometimes you might wanna take the problem serious.
Here is an example: A zombie is chasing you. What do you do? A. Run B. Fight the zombie, yet still have fear of it, so you try to kill it so it goes away or C. Just stand there and treat him like you would your best friend or family
Well, A and B are temporary solution, but the fear still reamains
But, with B, it depends, but if you kill the zombie out of fear, the fear is still there, so you did not conquor any fear. Now if you chose C, you are eliminating your fear of zombies (Which is irrational, because zomebies dont exist and if you are lucid its really silly, BUT its my goal to get rid of as many fears as I can so I can have more control over myself hehe).
Also, some people think that dream characters are other dreams. But, unless someone can prove that this is possible dream characters dont have rights, and since the other dreamer is dreaming, even if you do something bad, its just a dream. But, even so, they will percieve stuff way differently, for example, if you attack your friend in a dream and he is dreaming too, then if he is not scared of you he might not get attacked… Now, has anyone prooved this to them selves and how? cause if no one at least claims that they have prooved it and they dream everyday all lucid, then its most likely that they are not real. Be honest, as I am interested in the truth only.
Same goes in reverse, actualy, we dont know if they are real or not, and your right that you can not prove that they are not real, but you can prove that they are real (assuming they are real lol)
Also you cannot prove that the universe in infinite because well, if you go try to find a boundry, then well since its infinite there is none, but you can only prove that the universe is finite by exploring all of the universe then saying, well there is nowhere else to go, so it is finine.
You know what I mean, so, its best to prove that dream characters are real, and attempt it like TONS of times. Like here is an example:
You have 100 people, and they all are lucid dreamers and dream every night, and everytime they dream they follow a procedure:
Do this for every dream character you run into:
- Tell the dream character that they are dreaming
- Tell the dream character to call a an easy to remember phone number (IE: 1800-BOB-DOLE, something that you will NOT forget)
- Tell the dream character a specific easy to remember password
- Tell the dream character to then call the number and tell them the password
Now this procedure alone can be done to prove it to yourself, but!, how can you do this to prove it to EVERYONE? Well, problem is, is that the subjects could tell a friend the password, and have them call the company right?
Well, then the only plausable solution is to monitor all of the subjects over like how long you want to do the experiment for, BUT to motivate the subjects, since they will have to be monitored all of the time, you must pay them money, so it will cost ya.
Now, if some subject calls someone and they miss it, then, if they prove it to be true, they should review all of the serveylence tapes to ensure that the user did not call anyone else when some supervisor was not paying attention. I mean they should have it on camera and record all of the phoen messages etc.
um, don’t mean to be picky but that was not my quote. That was r3m0t 's.
Personaly I think that LD 's are in your mind and so DC have no rights.
Are there things beyond LD 's.
Umn… did you guys read over my last post? A DC told me the answer… heh. There isn’t any more speculation to be made 
DCs want us to do what ever we want. That is their purpose… without us they have no purpose.
Well this is half a joke… but the DC did tell this to me herself.
[/quote]
Okay guys there are way too many things to address right now, but I like this discussion… I took place in another similar one yesterday, and expressed my views of torturing, raping, killing, with mal-intent… enjoying it…
but i’d like to comment about some of the things i’ve read in here so far… i know some of what i’m about to say has been address, specifically the DC is actually just a non-lucid babblingly stupid normal dreamer… so anyways…
you state opinion and Theory as fact.
Reality is nothing more than your perceptions, is it not?
" I think many people new to the concept of lucid dreaming get hung up here, as it’s often tough to accept that you can experience something consciously that is not reality. "
If you experience it, it is REAL to you, and it is very real to your mind, right? Your mind says you just raped someone… and that you didn’t give any second thought to it. It’s going to file those memories.
I agree.
Now keep in mind I’m saying what I"m about say while not beliving in God, and CERTAINLY not the christian/jewish God.
But think of it like this… assuming he is real, which a lot of you probably do… we are just projections of his mind… think about it… really think about it… God thought us up, we came to be.
To God we might just be useless and flawed creations made by mere fragmented thoughts… DOES THAT MAKE IT OKAY FOR HIM TO SMITE THE HELL OUT OF US ON A CONSISTANT BASIS?
These issues get so deeply entangled in philosophy… I’d love to sit back, take something, and ponder them for a while… maybe some day…
I’ve validated encounters with real life people in dream, and, it could be coincidence, so… I’m going to keep testing, becuase… I can’t tell what triggers them to seem real, and what triggers them to not be. and if they are real, whether i’m interfacing with them, their subconscious, or, they HAVE to be dreaming at the same time as you.
If they are dreaming at the same time at you, that is more than enough reason to explain why you can control them and they don’t make much sense… if you were in an ND and thought you were a sponge, I sure bet some pro LDer could manipulate you to no end, and might even think you aren’t real.
Hmm…
That isn’t really true, you can reenter your exact exit point at will if you are in the right circumstances, they exist as memories in your head, at the very least, and can be jumped right back into…
But… existing elsewhere, who knows…
oh and one final note, the only reaosn we think dreams aren’t real, is because that is what we were told by birth… if you grew up and no one EVER explained to you what a dream was, we’d be having a completely different discussion right now.
I don’t think the mind can really separate dream from reality all that well… I mean, yes you know when you are “awake” usually, and dream memories are hard to hold onto, but the experiences themselves, they are just as real as real life can be at times… hence the terrifying nature of nightmares.
in the dream world everything makes sense to you (unless you are hyper lucid and thinking about the real world) but while in that sensible dream world, the real world tends to mean nothing to you, might even contradict things you “know” in the dream world…
like you “know” you’re a spy, not a college student, that’s nonsense…
it could be we live entirely complex lives in the dream world and only remember fragments of them, just as while we dream we only remember fragments of our real lives.
there are huge memory gaps i and we all have of dreams, no matter how intricate a dream was and how well we remember it, we still kidn of feel like there was so much more that slipped away.
who knows how real they could be? We could live thousands of different lives… this life we are living now could be a dream to us in another life we live while dreaming… or… something.
/end rambling.