[split] religious debate from 'do DC's have rights'

Who said that quote? I like it…

and yeah I just noticed it… I’ve been kind of afraid to re-enter the DC threads since I don’t have anything much else to say and what I’ve been saying is kind of controversial.

As for Timeless_Soul… I was raised a Christian, not really conservatively or anything, not until we moved to Church Town/Hicksville USA and well… then I went to church a lot and “found myself” … and EVENTUALLY (like a year ago) I finally found that I never really “found myself” … and yet doing so was not really finding myself either.

So umm… yes… well… I tried to read the Bible when I was younger, starting with the old testament, all this talks of killing people for working on the sabbath, sacrifices, circumcision (i think you should be able to sue if you were circumcised as a child… that’s just horrible… especially that we still do it) lots of people begetting each other… and um… well… nothing it said seemed to really apply to real life in the 20th century at all.

I basically think the Old Testament should just be looked at as some historical stuff, but you know… Christians should stick to Christ rather than sticking to “spare the rod, spoil the child” because I mean… if you’re going to follow some OT laws, you’d might as well follow ALL of them, but then of course you would contradict Christ’s teachings… which is why I think they should not follow the Old Testament at all…

Becuase you know some righteous Christian with too much time on her hands will go around telling people how right she is and how it’s not okay to accept homosexuality, and blah blah blah… well correct me if I’m wrong but Jesus never said a thing about gays did he? If you’re gonna condemn homosexuals maybe you should go sacrifice goats and be SUBMISSIVE IN CHURCH!!!

Man… I don’t know what I saw in her… I’m glad it’s over though… maybe she’s changed since then, she told me she did in a dream but I’m not so sure it had SD like qualities… I figure I more just wanted to hear that from her.

So anyways… my philosophy is do whatever you want unless it hurts people, and if it doesn’t, it isn’t anyone’s business but yours.

Basically the GOLDEN RULE… people should follow it:

this means,

gay marriages for all, marriage is already a joke in the US, ask any celebrity.

legalize it :tulip: … legalize it all really, give kids proper education about responsibility, used the saved billions on endless drug wars to establish free rehab centers… government regulate things to prevent lacings and keep dosages standardized, allow small growth for personal use of ANYTHING (who trusts the government to sell them drugs?) etc… most other countries don’t have much drug problems at all, rather more or less the same rates we do, including places where harder drugs are legal, and the hardest aren’t exactly things to be thrown in jail for… so… ( www.drugwarfacts.com ) kids in places with legal pot tend to not think pot is “cool” either.

VIOLENCE, PROFANITY, AND SEX ON TV… let parents censor their kids viewing material, they have lockout options for a reason

Did you guys know (this has been claimed by a popular US magazine, too, I’m not just spouting off opinion) that America is THE most backwards western democracy (or nation?) in the world? Why? CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS… I mean… you’d think we’d get over petty things that aren’t your business when we stopped being puritans and made dancing legalized… but nope… a bunch of old ladies think it’s their business to legislate their crazy morals that no one agrees with… I know some christians that want christianity to be the only allowed religion in the US…

It ultimately doesn’t really matter what you believe, but it isn’t your business trying to regulate what other people do unless it HURTS YOU. And if it something deemed a threat to society (violence, SEX, drugs) it should be dealt with SANELY… such as telling kids how to use condoms, telling them the prevalence of STDs encouraging responsibility, but understanding this is not some fairy tale world… instead of censoring the hell out of everything, give parents easy tools to decide what their kids can and can’t listen to and see… if someone is addicted to something, TREAT HIM, don’t throw him in jail with murderers and rapists and thieves… if he isn’t addicted, leave him the hell alone.

So anyways…

I think the problem is religion teaches you to be submissive to authority (religious authority/God) and therefore they develop authoritatiran mindsets where they can’t question the government, and they feel like it is THEIR BUSINESS what we do in our own homes, etc…

It largely depends on how you are raised… most christians are pretty tolerant and sensible and whatnot… so are most jews, buddhists, muslims, etc…

afterthought: What I find odd, is that NYPD Blue used the word bullsh!t (yes i’m censoring myself…) on various occasions, they never received one complaint… yet still, they are getting all this censorship crackdown nonsense on them, for something NO ONE CARES ABOUT… I mean … ugh… I don’t know, I read an article about it the other day and about how they’ll cancel the show rather than censor the daylights out of it.

It is driving me crazy. I still can’t remember who said it. It was some philosopher. I’ll remember eventually.

I agree with that. Many of our laws were based on Christian morality which most Americans don’t agree with but, no politician will change any thing. Good luck getting elected without the bible belt (thanks to our brilliant electoral system). BTW- we are a republic not a democracy.

There are things that are illegal here but are legal in most other democratic nations.

Our problem is that in most cases the average person is not that involved in politics. It’s big business and special interest groups. Especially religious groups.

I think things will change as more yong people start to get into politics.

Well yeah, a democratic republic or something akin to it. You wouldn’t know that by how many time Bush uses the word “democracy” in his speeches though.

young people genuinely don’t care. People said that in the past, like “man, pot will be legalized soon once more people start voting” but nope… lord knows we’ve tried, maybe in another 10 years?

But… the thing of it is, and this is the way the government wants it… NO ONE CARES.

Only 60% or so percent of americans according to some CNN poll think this election is important. My God this is the most important thing to happen to us in the past few generations, we have Adolf W. Bush wanting to throw American citizens in concentration camps, making the whole world hate us, getting us involved in another Vietnam… looking the other way for months when torture is reported then when for some reason (distracting us from the US pullou from Fallujah?) the media FINALLY publishes pictures/stories (you CAN find them prior to this… there have been tons of pictures of people being forced to kneel, do crucifixes, reports of them being shot with rubber bullets for fun, etc, they’ve been around forever) and NOW Bush cares… now Bush is outraged.

It’s so conveninat for him to always blame everyone else for his ignorances… I mean on the one hand he definitely seems to be an idiot so you can kind of believe he didn’t know, but on the other hand I think he’s pretty damn smart.

Why does the media suddenly give a damn? This is stuff anyway halfway decent American should already know has been going on forever.

But we don’t, because we dont’ care.

JFK said something akin to “the day you stop questioning your government is the day freedom dies”

I mean I know I like to blame the media a lot but they disconnect us form everything, “6 dead today” SO WHAT… you’re just spouting off numbers, maybe tell us what happened? Give us their NAMES? Tell us of deaths on the other side (civillians)? SHOW US PICTURES? War is easy to stomach when all you see on tv is an army guy shooting his machine gun at a wall… we have no idea just how horrible things really are over there.

I don’t know exactly why most 18-24 year olds are so apathetic, but I am damn sure the government likes it that way, if all the hippies and potheads started voting they could cause drastic change… I guess it’s kind of effective as labeling a huge chunk of teenagers as “losers” and thereby making it “cool” for the to “rebel” against society by not voting… I have no idea though.

I just know that no one cares that their constitutional freedoms are gone… “so what” or “if you don’t like it, move out”… yeah… I should move out for trying to do my damned American duty of trying to keep this government in line.

Ughhh… why aren’t we up in the streets rallying against censorship? No one in their right mind likes it, those who do are severely outnumbered… what happened to all the protests and movements of the 60s? Sure when protestors are jailed and put on no fly lists it’s a bit discouraging but what can they do if all of us start protesting? I guess that’s what all the development into non-lethal chemical weapons and fancy laser beams is for…

Oh well. It’s easier to not care about anything than to see the world for what it really is.

As for the religious side of things I hope my post didnt’ come off as being too angry or condescending, or anything like that.

The basic point of it is that unless you parents raised you in a free thinking environment, the religion you have is not your own, and you should question it.

If you question it for a long time, and really try to see things from other points of view, and you still like it, that’s great. But if you find other answers, that’s great too… at least you’re trying.

It’s those that refuse to, and those who think they are right and everyone else is wrong, that make this world a bad place to live in right now.

I completely agree with you.

As I have said on one of these DC threads. It is important for people to accept each other for who they are. To keep themselves and society in balance. :yinyang:

When a person or society believes that they alone define what is right and any one who disagrees with them is evil the society is thrown out of balance. This is often when the greatest of evil acts are committed. Yes, I mean that good becomes evil. Think about the crusades, the Spanish inquisition, and the which trials. Acts all committed by the church ( good ) who disagreed with a person or group and judged them evil. Then systematically slaughtered people by the thousands (great evil act )simply because they did not agree with them.

I don’t want people to think I anti-Christian. Quite the contrary I respect everyone beliefs. But I feel strongly about people cramming a religion down others throats.

I believe that we are all “good” and “evil”. We all have these qualities in side each one of us. I think we could use lucid dreaming to explore all our qualities positive and negative to help us achieve balance within ourselves. :yinyang: