The BIG WBTB Topic - Part II

there is a huge sticky on this topic, but i ussaly get up n get out of bed. do somthing like get on the forum. well i used 2. for like 20 min then back to bed n try it. but wild keeps me up n makes me stay awake! so nto my fav tech

If you fall asleep easily, you can get up and stay up for 30 minutes. If you have trouble falling asleep, you can just wake up and re-enter a dream right away.

Why would you want to stay awake longer anyway?

Why is it that WBTB works well for so many people? What exactly happens when you do WBTB? I’m familiar with the process but how does this work in terms of your actual dreaming? Are you sleeping lighter because you’ve been up for an hour and so its easier to become lucid? Or for the people who do it only for a minute and then go back to sleep how does this work? Also are REM cycles always (ignoring outside factors like alcohol or drugs) 90 minutes long? And does this begin from the minute you lie down to go to sleep or when you actually fall asleep? So if I want to set an alarm to go off 90 minutes into my REM cycle should I set it for 90 minutes after I lie down or 90 minutes + however long it will take me to actually fall alseep? Basically I’m just confused about REM/sleep cycle, how long it last and when exactly dreaming occurs and how this works with WBTB or alarms or lucid inductions that play after you are already asleep?

I don’t think it’s clearly explained. This empirical technique has been created from lucid dreamers observations who claimed they had more dreams in the morning and during morning naps.

I think you have to distinguish between WBTB used with WILD and WBTB with DILD/MILD. On the Lucidity Institute website, they assume that “the best time to directly enter the REM state is immediately after having awakened from it”. This has to do with dream-reentry technique and WILD. Moreover it seems you can WILD out of the REM-sleep phase. Thus you don’t have to wait for a long time before you fall asleep again. But when you practice WBTB+MILD, you have to wait 45 minutes. This is just statistical results.

Don’t confuse REM sleep phase and a full sleep cycle. A full sleep is always 90 minutes long. At the end of the sleep cycle, you have a REM sleep phase which lasts 5 mn in the beginning of the night and may last 45 mn at the end of the night.

When you go to bed, you generally enter very quickly the sleep stage 1 which is the beginning of the sleep cycle. Thus most of us put their alarm on a multiple of 90 mn after they go to bed.

Dreaming occurs during the whole sleep cycle. But the “best” dreams are those of the REM sleep phase cause they are more scenarized and it’s easier to recall them. Generally, when people recall dreams, they recall REM-sleep dreams.

I hope I replied to all your questions. I’ll merge your post in the BIG WBTB topic.

For me it is explained that way:

WBTB is a forced way of opening your “dream enclosure”. You can wake up and remember them, start thinking about it and realise when it happens again.

But the question “Why is it easier for most people?”
That’s just like i said, that forced way of remembering may work even when you cannot can induce thoughts to your mind.
Maybe caused of stress, bad memory, tiredness, bad concentration…

I’ve mentioned it here.

my first LD ever (2 nights ago) was after my friend called me randomly to tell me about his dream and then i fell back asleep.

last night, i tried WBTB (i read the forums for 10 mins) and i ended up having a lucid moment.

i frequently do WBTB (without reading hte forums) and attempt to WILD but that has been unsuccessful for me.

Would WILDing after reading the forums still induce a lucid dream like normal WBTB even if i dont succeed in WILD? or should i just do strict WBTB without WILD?

Sorry if this smallish piece of information can already be found somewhere in this maze, but as a somewhat lazy person I figured I could just go ahead and ask it directly.

I “found” lucid dreaming a few weeks ago, and had a lucid moment on the following night. Of course, seeing as I had read so little about LD techniques, I had no idea how to maintain the low lucidity I had. Even if it was short, it sure as hell was impressive. After that night I have had a few more lucid “moments”, but nothing I could call a whole dream or high lucidity. I still have to find my own way of having them, and WBTB caught my eye.

I am one of those people who fall asleep slowly, but who have high motivation. So my question is that if I am about to try out the WBTB method should I start some WILD techniques instantly after waking up and hope for the best or should I stay up for a time and then get back to bed? Naturally the instant WILDing is more suitable for me, but if staying up for a while means a lot more efficiency, I may have to sacrifice the comfortability and suitability for it.

Maybe those who have more trouble falling asleep could harness that attribute in the instant WILDing method? Could they stay awake longer and have better chances to stay awake through the whole ordeal?

Thanks in advance.

I’m a firm follower of WBTB, I’m lucky to be able to fall back asleep really well. I get a great assortment of DILD’s and WILD’s.

My question is, how many times can you do it in one night?

If I wake up at 4am, go back to bed at 4:30… how long should I let myself sleep before doing it again? I’m afraid to wake myself up during (or even worst before) an LD.


I think REM cycle is roughly 90 minutes. May vary by person.

I believe that interrupted sleep helps with LDs. When I sleep 8 hours straight I never seem to get lucid.

Currently I’m doing WBTB at 3:00 and 5:00. But I only stay up 5 to 10 minutes. If I feel very tired at 3:00 I shut off 5:00 alarm.

I’m still toying with the perfect formula. My alarm wakes me for work at 7am.

I surf a bit around LD4All during my WBTB, usually about 30mins awake. 2 and 5 is pretty good, I think.

How long do successful WBTB’ers stay awake?

It depends on the induction technique you use. For MILD/autosuggestion, a 45 mn WBTB is told to be the best. For WILD, you don’t need such a long time and some people even don’t go out of their bed.

i did my first real WBTB last night, and it was a success! :good: i did it almost exactly like how Darxide said to do in the lucid library. the only thing i changed was i didnt take a shower since i already take 2 a day as it is, 3 would just send me over the edge. and i stayed up for 45 minutes due to reading basilus’ last post.

i wrapped myself up in a large comforter, put on some trance and surfed ld4all. it took about a half hour to get back to sleep. i chose to use MILD. whats interesting to me is i had my very first FA in my ND before it turned into a LD, where i thought about how it was too bad that WBTB didnt work this time. i also had a FM of it taking me 2 hours to fall asleep with WBTB.

this happy girl is going to play some Oblivion until she feels like typing the dream up in her diary :grin:

I tried WBTB last night and didn’t get a lucid dream but the best dream recall I ever had. I set my alarm for 5:00 and 8:00 but when I woke up I just went back to sleep quickly(less than a minute) and when I woke up at 8:00 I was so tired I went back to sleep again for a short dream. I remembered all 3 dreams last night very vividly.

WBTB is not a standalone technique. You have to practice autosuggestion, MILD or WILD before you fall back asleep.

I got a question about WBTB. I have been waking up 4 hours after sleeping and having no dream recall. My question is if I wake up 5 hours do you think Id have some recall. I want to remember something for MILD so I can visualize and 4 hrs doesnt seem to make me remember anything.

I’d say try waking up between 5 and 6 hours, and see what works the best for you.

It’s probably due to the sleep cycle. First REM sleeps are short. And you certainly woke up during a n-REM sleep what makes dreams harder to remember. It’s said to be better if you wake up after a multiple of 1.5, that is 4.5 hours or 6 hours.

I woke up 4.5 hours after I went to sleep, and I did not remember my dream.

Nor did I remember actually waking up to my alarm clock :eh:

Lol, Should I try to wake up a little later? A little earlier?
I usually feel that 6 hours later will make me wake up too late in the morning (8-9). I haven’t recalled a long, vivid dream in a very long time. (Since I started a dream journal I don’t remember if I had a vivid, exciting dream, like ones that I remember I used to have.)
Is that related to LD in any way? Or is it just that my life is boring, so it does not inspire my dreams
(because I usually notice that stuff in my dreams are inspired by events that I had the previous day/week)

Off Topic, Madshadow, if you have a boring life like me your dreams get even more awesome. Usual places get fantasy worlds, new characters are involved in a plot, your family members are strange - I like it. :smile: