the cheapest, easiest to build dream goggles EVER!

Quest for Lucidity
112

It all depends on how many features you want to implement. I was saying that for something that simply senses eye movement and responds you could do so with the smaller 8pin chips. These chips do even have the capability of communicating with the computer through the serial port(be careful of the voltage levels…).

However, if you want room on board the chip to store data or are going to communicate with something outside(such as an i2c eeprom for memory storage) or will have lot of different settings, or multiple outputs. A larger chip would be necessary. Essentially it completely depends upon how many features you want to implement.

113

Okay so it all depends on the features you want to implement. So do you think if you want to make it detect just REM movements you could do it on an PICAXE 08? or would you need the 08M?

I thought there is nothing you can do with wanting room on board on all PICAXE chips as they all have to have room for you to be able to program it with your source code, right?

What IR sensor for detecting REM would you suggest to use with the 08/08M PICAXE chips?

How much would it cost to build this LD device?

Sorry for all the questions but it would be great to know, I really like PICAXE chips for their simplicity.

Many thanks in advance

114

The reason why the space on the chip matters is because some of the chips have set aside memory for variables and others have (such as the 8 pin ones) share that memory with the program. More program, less memory for storage. Also it limits the amount of code you have.

I dont think the price difference between the 08 and 08M is very much, and I like the additional features on the 08M.

As for IR sensor, you can look at what the kavasar used, but I honestly dont know.

As to cost, that once again depends on what you want to do. Different sensors are different prices, chips are different prices, whether you make a pcb or use a premade board changes the price. Also there are all of the tools depending on what you have at your disposal.

Also, feel free to IM me at the aim username provided on my profile.

115

Many thanks for your reply

I will have to look into all this in more detail

Here is the kvasar site brindefalk.solarbotics.net/kvasar/kvasar.html

The IR sensor is the S4810 or 4826 Photosensor by hamamatsu jp.hamamatsu.com/products/sensor … ex_en.html

The kvasar site said that if you have trouble finding the hamamatsu one you can then use use Sharp IS489 or the HLC2701 by Honeywell instead.

Been looking at lithium-ion button cell rechargeable batterries which are rated at 3.7 volts.

The smaller, lighter and less bulky we can make this device the more comfortable it will be to sleep with.

116

Yea, Ive seen that style battery, its pretty nice. What exactly is your level of experience in electronics? Also, honestly, if you are completely serious about this, I find the IR approach a bit odd. I suggest you do some research on EOG. I know there is an ancient thread on here from someone who built a dream detection device based around that and an atmel microcontroller.

117

I am a complete beginner in electronics but am a fast learner and very keen to take on a project.

Here I found from a forum search on here some threads back EOG part this is the one I think you are talking about

ld4all.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t … hlight=eog

A long while back there was a guy on here called meusopusmagnus and he was working on EEG type device for detecting REM by wearing something on your finger. Unfortunately his profile shows he hasn’t visited the site for a few years. Of course all of these methods were being worked on years ago with nothing coming out. IR sensors have come a long way and I think there more simple and accurate now with the current state of technology. Which is why I would rather go down the route of IR sensors.

Here is a real world product that uses EOG technology. greatlakesortho.com/commerce … ?nPID=1752 The watch PAT-200 and watch pat-100 by imatar medical. Both models cost $5000, they detect REM/NREM and loads of other things all from a sensor on the finger. Now if only we could create that tech for under $100. If we bought one of these and stripped it apart and made the device light up some LED’s when the sensor picks up REM.

118

I really like the EOG method personally since it is medically valid. Another way is detecting muscle tonus near the chin(dont remember the muscle) since due to sleep paralysis it goes low during REM sleep. Also, the device you sent me uses the PAT method, this is also medically verified…you should look at it in more detail… I have not seen any hobbyist attempts at using it.

119

We could go on for another few years and get nowhere with development if we continue to look at other technologies for detecting REM. I seen it happen here for the last 5 years, it’s got nowhere. We are all trying to make that best device using new tech when we are better off taking things like IR sensors which are real and readily available and just making a simple REM detecting device without all the best of the best features which you will never use like found in other very expensive LD devices. Sure with other tech we may get better results, but IR sensors shouldn’t be overlooked.

120

I suppose. I just know a lot of people don’t like to wear a mask to sleep. EOG is actually not too difficult to implement using simple op-amps and reading in the voltage level through the adc on a chip. Heck, if you wanted to go as absolutely simple as possible you could create a small opamp circuit wired to a timer such as the 555 and just record the voltage as a frequency using standard mic/line in port on a computer.

121

Hello all,

I have been interested in this concept for a long time… but didn’t want to pay up to 140.00 bux for something I new I could make myself… if in fact that is the least expensive price.

But there are a lot of us who may not be able to afford such luxury.

In one of the reply post I read a suggestion about making a wireless unit.

You might think this as being difficult… but I assure u it is not… and will prob only cost you about 20.00 to make a wire dream goggle.

For starters if you’ve ever own a wireless mouse (optical mouse) you’d notice that if you place this mouse over your eye lid ( where the light shines through) and roll your eyes… as if you were in rem sleep…. Well…. The light will shine brightly.

Ok, I have purchase 2 optical wireless mice from odd lots… each for 6.99. I have taken then apart… I used glue from a glue gun that u can place into a hot glue gun… careful it’s hot… lol. And put glue all over the little shinny parts. This is solder. The reason for the glue is to keep anything from shorting out. And to keep the little solder connections from touching your skin…. Only 2 – volts… but on eye lids might tingle… lol.

Also make sure batteries are not connected when applying glue. The goggle I also purchased from odd lots for 2.99, the rubbery flimsy kind. Gives you enough area to place electronics inside. Odd lots has black spray paint for .99 – 1.99.
Spray only the outside of goggles with the paint.

Ok…. Well this is as far as I have gotten… but for a device so inexpensive…. As to which you might even be holding in your hand as you read this is a great idea…. Considering…… It detects rem….rapid eye movement.

The only down fall to this at the monument… is it doesn’t flash… it just gets bright through the eye lid. There is however on you tube an electronic gadget that they show you step by step on how to build that will cause a led to flash rapidly. This I will be working on some time next week.

Ill keep you informed. Oh…btw…. If you’re handy; you can even un-solder the led from the mouse… and use any color you want.

I went to radio shack and bout 2 blue leds for 1.99 each…a and just put then in same place as the red ones from the mice.

Hope you like this idea… im still playing with mine…. Getting the optics in the right place to detect the rem stage will be kind of tricky… might even have to use a piece of double sided sticky take to bring closer to eye.

Tell me what you think… ill try to see if I can get pics to ya…. In details.

Later all….have fun.
rcw

122

indeed, this is a simple method of using readily available parts. I think this idea has been tossed around before, I know Ive given a shot or two. and if you want wireless, just buy a wireless mouse. I want to mention to you that in terms of the light you could instead of replacing the LED with another visible color, replace it with IR LED and it will work just fine. In terms of signaling, it is also easy to write a program that tracks the mouse movements and thus could control when signals are given.
In my experiments with this method the trickiest thing, as you have found, is getting the optics right. the installed optics are meant to be very close to the object it is tracking. Either new optics are needed to allow it to focus from farther away or else it needs to be brought close to the eye, which can be difficult unless you use a very small mouse.
I wish you the best of luck. do feel free to post pics. if you get it working you could consider writing an instructable/tutorial on how to make it.

123

I’l admit I know almost nothing about electronics and all that but i had one idea:

  1. get some cheap or old headphones.
  2. Cut off the heads of them, so you have the jack and some wire.
  3. (this is the part that I don’t know is posible) attach the LEDs to the end of the wires
  4. Plug it into an alarm with a headphone jack, so long as it will turn itself off, or not if your fine with flashing lights.
  5. If this works as i think it might, the leds should start flashing.
    Sorry if this idea’s already been posted or if its complete nonsense, just thought it worth sharing :happy:
    EDIT: Another idea: Might this be more effective if only one eye is shined on? We’re used throughout the day to seeing things with two eyes, if in a dream you say a flash of light, but it was only half there and sorta flickery like it would be if you say it only with one eye it might be more noticeable.
124

i have done this once… yes it is possible to do this. however you will need to dis essemble the alarm clock radio and solder right into the wires connecting to the speaker. the music playing through to the leds has the voltage that is moderate… it changes… causing the leds to flickers dim and bright… etc.when i did mine… i poked a small hole in back of radio to feed the wires from the speaker to the leds.
set the alarm to a certain time… and u might get the lucid dream you.ve been waiting for. the only bad thing about this option is it is considred a hit or mis.
meaning you could go weeks before it happens mainly because the is not way to tell if your rem sleep will happen at the axact time you set. but it is the mose in-expensive way to go. one thing you need to look out for… is the head phones.
the headphones in production today have a webbed fiber type wire… it is very very difficult to cut and splice. your best option is to look for cheapest oldest headphones you can find… like garage sales, pawn shops, odd lots… etc. because that type is older style wire… that has plastic coating. it worked for me… im sure it’ll work for you… and no, you dont have to be electronic savy to do this. give it a try. i myself never had any luck with it… thats y im trying the mouse trick… because the sensor in it will be able to detect my eye lids moving during rem.

been very ill latley; in and out of hospital… so havnt been able to complete the mouse eye ware. but soon, and ill let u all know how it goes.

125

Hey everyone, just thought Id mention something interesting I just now managed to do. I got a “bus pirate” for christmas(google it/look on hackaday, its a sweet tool) and managed to take complete control over an optical mouse sensor. This is nice because it means I should be able to(if I ever get a chance) interface the chip directly with another microcontroller and completely remove the computer from the equation. Admittedly this isnt as easy to do as just strap a mouse to your face, but it also has much greater opportunities for customizing and perfecting a smaller, more portable, accurate, and comfortable design.

rw43068- I hope you recover quickly from whatever illness you had.

126

I’m building a dream mask that uses EOG based on arduino. It has a configure mode where there is a menu driven configuration over serial, and output mode where EOG data is sent over serial. It has autotuning for the EOG amps, variable LED brightness/flash sequences, configurable “fall-asleep” delay, “TWC” (can interact with it via eye movements like remdreamer), post-REM wake up alarm and a regular alarm clock.

It’s still a work in progress on a breadboard right now, but its promising. Graphing the EOG data is really cool, I hope to replicate some of LaBerge’s experiments. This is a graph of a nap I took a few days ago. The EOG is still kind of noisy, I hope to clear it up with more filtering. I am just using disposable EKG electrodes for now.

img706.imageshack.us/img706/7923/nap.png

Above 500 is an eye movement to the left, and below 500 is an eye movement to the right. Thats about 3 hours squished together, in the software I can zoom in on specific areas. I still need to add timestamping to the graph.

This is how it looks so far:

img130.imageshack.us/img130/6199/pa180001.jpg

127

I got the circuit and software completed and it works great. I also found a company that was willing to send me a couple samples of some nice reusable electrodes to use with it.

128

I’m impressed. :grin: I must say congrats on seeing all your hard work come together. I look forward to any schematics/code you may release. Now you just have to perfect it/shrink it down. Out of curiosity, what language is your computer software written in?

Once again congrats on successfully piecing this together and good luck in continuing development.

129

Hm, nvm. Just noticed that you had a more in detail thread elsewhere. Hope you don’t mind my posting a link to it here so others interested in knowing a bit more details about it can have a look. arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaB … 67726728/0

looks good so far. I look forward to seeing how it evolves.

130

Thanks. On the PC side I just use Minicom to configure the settings over serial, and use KST to graph the output data. The code for the microcontroller is written in the Arduino IDE. I’ll be writing a standalone app for it probably in Java

Next step is to see if I can get it small enough on a PCB to comfortably fit on a sleep mask. I’d like to use what I have but I may have to switch to surface mount components to get it small enough, will have to see. I’ll post updates as I go

131

Very nice. Surface mount components really aren’t that bad and I believe you mentioned on your other thread you sampled most of your components so its not like it’d cost much (if any) more money. Would definitely be able to shrink it down that way(especially the avr).

I’ve done quite a bit of PCB and Java work. While its obvious you are perfectly capable of managing this project on your own, if you ever want a second opinion on anything feel free to PM me.

Good luck, and I look forward to the updates.