“I knew I loved you before I met you
I think I dreamed you into life”
Savage Garden…
I just thought I’d mention that lyric! 
miles to Kuro-tsuno who is sleeping right now XD probably? XD :
Yeah…
But I’ve recently been thinking, maybe in a self-defeatist, nihilistic manner: Is it even practical to carry out a relationship with a DC?
Possible, sure - no doubt, if maybe a bit… weird at first, but what are the ramifications of such a desire? And would it be preferred to - “better than” - a RL relationship?
Sorry. I try to analyze things from all angles, almost to a destructive manner, at times. But I thought it would be good for a discussion among those who have, are, or will consider the idea. 
i see your point Angstyboy,
the idea of doing that could destroy your desire for a RL relatioship,
it’s a very deep subject. What would happen if you have a deep relationship w / your DC and suddenly IRL you encounter a love partner? it’s a big deep thing to talk about for hours.
Interesting… Most of the time I have no recall of names for characters. Also, I don’t think I’ve ever had recurring girls in my dreams. In fact, the only recurring DCs I get are dream versions of people I know from RL, most of the time close friends or family.
Now that I think of it, there are recurring girl DCs I can remember. However, both of them were different on each time. It’s as if they were different persons with same/similar looks. There were two: one was a black-haired girl with pigtails who was sometimes Asian or had Asian elements related to her. Her hair was really really long and beautiful, too. The second one was a short-haired girl with tan/Indian-like skin. While at first look it seemed that there were only differences instances of the same characteristics on different dreams, all of them carried similar feelings about them. You know, the feeling you get when you talk to someone, they always had the same (all the pigtail girls and all the tan girls, respectively).
It’s been a while since I’ve last dreamed with them, but recently I’ve been having dreams with girls with short black hair.
I suppose you’re right when you say that the DCs might be people we’ve seen IRL, but sometimes I also wonder if: a) they aren’t a mix of several people/things we’ve seen b) they come from elsewhere, maybe another reality, if you believe our minds can connect to other realms of reality.
Still, for me it’s usually the girls who are more interesting. But, of course, I’ve also met really cool male DCs, usually on dreams where I’m part of a team or something like that.
I agree that this is strange subject… Since we still have a lot to learn from dreams, I don’t know if it would be safe to actually fall in love with a DC. I guess it just wouldn’t work. Also, think of the consequences: IRL, you’d feel guilty if you hanged out with another girl, and you’d be some sort of heart breaker, depending on the circumstances. There’s much to consider before trying anything like this 
Even as a “rehearsal”, I’m not sure if it would work - we might end up manipulating the DC. Plus, people are mostly unpredictable, so you might rehearse for something that in the end would be of no use to you.
I see your point Rodrigo, but i’m gonna still try it,
I mean, i’m a person that has never had even a real female friend in school, i can hardly see myself w/ a girlfriend either. So my case can be special, it might not work for others because they might have their own RL girl/boyfriend but that’s not my case, and i know it won’t be like RL but it’s worth the try i mean, why not?
In school, I had no boyfriends, or anything…crushes, yeah but I didn’t have anyone even like me until I was older…^^; No one really likes me, or ever did so ^^; I can understand completely how you feel.
The thing is, if you fall in love with a dream character, and mold them to be your perfect girl…won’t you be biased if you really start having feelings…and how will you ever find the one you love? I mean, maybe you can have a “shared dream” sort of thing…where the girl is a real person, and you eventually meet her. It’s a shoujo manga plotline there XD but…what if after 5 months of DC dating, you meet a girl who is nice, who you really like, but doesn’t add up to your DC girlfriend? And what if it’s someone you can tell and share everything with—if you tell her about the DC girlfriend, she will probably always feel inadequate next to her, probably. (I know you’d probably say, oh well, I just won’t tell her! But that’s not being honest/sharing everything with this person you may come to truly love. Also, she might one day come across LD4all, and then…)
I mean, there might be someone already who has done this, but just putting myself in that idea, I’d probably always feel inadequate…I guess! I dunno. If it happened in a dream you had no control over, then it’s a dream…but to become lucid and to have a dream-world life…ah I dunno. I’m rambling. But, I was just thinking of the person you do come to love, their feelings… I’m being like Angstyboy-san, trying to figure out all the angles! ^^; But, it’s a human response to want to find someone, or whatnot. I remember being a teenager and thinking how nice it would be to find someone who even liked me. ^^; Alot of people find me annoying, especially guys so it was upsetting alot! ^^;
Kuro is someone who doesn’t find me annoying, but I can give you a long list of people who do… for some reason. 
which is why I don’t actually post much and probably shouldn’t post here now but don’t mind me! ^^;;;;
I think Adventura has a valid reason for wanting a DC-relationship, and I could actually see something of that manner working, if not in a quirky fashion given the raw nature of dreams, in general. But who’s to say it could not be done successfully? He may live, what I would call, a “backwards existence,” where he merely waits throughout the day to live in his dreams, and that could be totally fine for him. In fact, there are at least 10 reasons why DC girls are better than real girls:
You don’t need to spend any money on them.
You can go to the mall and actually pick one up.
You can always get the hottest one.
No shower, no problem.
You can go on dates in your underwear.
Your mom won’t get mad if your in your room with the door shut.
You get the XL pizza all to yourself.
No matter how many times you mess up, you can always try again.
You can actually get the one in magazines.
If you get bored… 
I honestly can’t think of why you would ever get bored.
Now I could joking entirely, but it’s arguable that a DC-relationship has its perks. RL ones do, too - just to be fair.
Wow, do they need to know about your dream life, too, Hime. 
DC-girls only want to know what you want to tell them. 
Anyway, if a RL-girl doesn’t compare to a DC-girl then forget about her. Or, start a relationship with her because she is imperfect. Personally, I see DC-girls as real so long as I exist in my dreams and they exist in my memory.
This would make for a nice mini-experiment. The nature of a dream-based relationship…
I think the entire RL-girlfriend v. DC-girlfriend depends on your ethics. Are they really going to carry over into the dreamverse. I’d hate it if my WL completely invaded my dream life like that. 
o.O Obviously if you are into LDing, and you find a girl you love Angsty, I’m sure one day the conversation will be about that, and honestly, do you think she wouldn’t want to know your interests?
I’m just saying, in a completely honest relationship where you tell the other person everything (and not every relationship is like this, some people feel telling the other everything is bad, so I’m not promoting any of either) just, imagine Angsty, your new girlfriend was into LDs, and you went on a website and read that, “oh my DC boyfriend is so much better then him”, or “I kinda wish he was more like my DC”…if you loved this person (and obviously they wouldn’t love you fully if you read this) …it would hurt, ne? That you just weren’t good enough even compared to a fantasy…That’s all I mean. It’s all what if really, I guess. Just saying.
But, yeah, sorry Angsty if that sounded odd. I just can imagine the consequences of such things. o.O No, your significant other doesn’t need to know about your dream life, most people keep that quiet, just I can imagine how distressing it would be if someone liked you, and sigh never mind. o.O >< 
Sorry
You never seem to finish what you’re trying to say, Hime. What a pity, because you were making a good point.
But still, this also further exemplifies why a pure DC-relationship is, in some ways, better. Then again, there are obviously - I’m assuming - problems going on in a RL-relationship if you need a DC-relationship.
Not good enough even compared to a fantasy? Who is? Like I said, you appreciate a WL-girlfriend for her imperfections. Hurt? Meh, I’d probably weep for her poor insight. That she can only have him in her dreams/fantasies. But if she’s happy with that, then whatever. If I was that good to her she’d be dreaming of me, but I can understand if she needed something, or someone… different.
I want a Final Fantasy/anime-game girl cutout that can morph into an über badass sword with pyrokinetic abilities and complete dominion over all things sweet. That’s something I can only get in my dreams, and a RL-girl could never live up to that expectation, but I’d appreciate her for who she is, regardless. She just wouldn’t be as cool in those respects. 
Nobody’s girl-/boyfriend can do the things a DC can. Not even Kuro.
Angsty - 2 
Hime - 0 
No I’m just joking.
The argument could really go both ways.
But, in essence a DC is your imagination. You can make twists and turns, make that person say what you want, but what you lose is that person’s free will. You expected your DC girl to say she loved you, but the real life girl slapped you instead.
It’s the ability to not be able to control every aspect, and living in the unknown that makes the real world so alive, and so exciting. And that feeling you get when you look into the one you love, their eyes…you’ll never really have that in a dream.
DC characters are good in the sence you don’t need to share pizzas and such, true…but isn’t that…predictable? I dunno. In dream you have no control over, it can all change and be un-predictable, but I’m assuming this DC relationship is done through LDing, ne? I dunno.
But, would you love her? That’s the thing. 
It’s fun to sit and read a book, and think, I wish I was that character. I wish, I could make everyone love me, or dance with such and such…everyone does that.
But would you feel those butterflies with a DC girl, the ones you get when you meet them for the first time? Or when they talk to you?
It’s natural to dream, to fantasize. It’s how our mind relaxes, it’s fun, it’s wonderful. Sometimes it’s just our subconcious going on a roller-coaster ride.
LDing, seems to be…taking control of this dream world. It sounds amazing. But that feeling of love, the feeling of talking to someone, even if it was online, even if it was a comment on a myspace, deviantart, facebook, LD4all, that jumpy, heart-racing feeling…do you think you’d still feel that in a dream relationship? Truly feel it? Not just make-believe now.
Sure, you can look into her eyes in a dream. But, what happens when you say, “I wish I knew what you were thinking…I want to know how you feel, what makes you tick…”
In a DC, doesn’t this person think what you want them to?
Most girls, if they love a guy, will want to hear them talk for hours. Out of their own free will. Their own love.
But having a DC character do it, because you “can”… I just don’t know, to be honest.
Edit…For some reason “Fiction” has been in my head. o.O on auto-repeat…
Well, if you follow Sartre, then your imagination is, in essence, reality relative to you. That’s really all that matters, now isn’t it? As I mentiones before, the nature of the relationship all comes down to your own ethics and idiosyncrasies. You don’t have to make “twists and turns.” You don’t have to completely dominate the dreamverse. You can expect things in a lucid dream. It doesn’t have to happen. It could. But, it doesn’t have to. The same applies for WL. Because just as in RL, we don’t completely understand the dream world, either. Of course, a slap in the dream world would probably hurt a lot less.
(Although, some people do like predictatbility, believe it or not… 
Especially the obsessive compulsive. 
)
Hime, did you ever think that absolute power over everything can make some people feel more alive than limited control? Remember the subjectivity of what we’re talking about… I feel way more alive in an LD than in WL, whether I exercise full control or not. I assume you don’t, however. Never really have “that feeling” in a dream… I’ve had it plenty of times. Such is why I look forward to going back, every night.
DC characters are good in the sense that they can be even more real than you can imagine, which is a conundrum in itself because didn’t you imagine them? Hmm… did you? Well, do we really know everything about DCs. Dreams even?
Love. Uh… yeah. I try to avoid the use of the word when applied to people…
The beauty of DCs is, you can go beyond saying, “I wish I knew what you were thinking…” and say, “I wish I knew what you were…” Which seems a lot more intersting to me. But that’s just a preference.
Neither of us can completely be sure of any of this, though. Somebody will first need to experience it. And even then, it’s still a matter of relativity. Each of us could bring back a different viewpoint after such an experience. And because of how real - or unreal - our experiences would feel to us, respectively, we would probably never reach a definitive consclusion on the subject other than, “to each his/her own reality.”
(And Hime, there are those who wake up with overwhelming emotions caused by DC limerance… Happens to me all the time. But I at least felt good while I was there.)
Obbsessive Complusive…kinda do things again and again to prevent something from happening, or do it because if they don’t, then it creates an anxiety…Like, checking a lock 5 times otherwise some one will break in, if you don’t…However, in a relationship, predicability is nice if like, you know they will always kiss you goodbye. However, if it’s a rut sort of predictability, sometimes people feel smothered by that.
I hate not being in control of things. I want to control my own life, I want to be a dominant force in this world, I want to do good. But I don’t want to control the people who love me, or write their words for them. I want someone to be able to say they love me, and mean it, because of their own feelings within their own heart. If I tell you, hey you’re going to love me and that’s it…well, you might, but…I made that choice for you. It should be the choice of your partner, ne?
You never asked me if I thought dreams could be real. Honestly, I don’t know. I wrote a story as a kid about two people, who had a past life. They made a promise, and each night in their new lives, they’d meet each other in their dreams, (as a DC, I guess) until they met.
I love sci-fi, and don’t get me wrong----I’ve had dreams when I was younger that felt very real. My story I posted about “Truth Or Dare” was a dream I had before I met Kuro. In parts of it, I am Katsuki. Call it Mary Sue if you want, but of course, as that character there is a person you might like. But, it was never anything more serious.
You know, I can ask for a DC to accept me…I can think that, someone will accept me, for everything, say having an illness, or wearing glasses…being short, being loud-mouthed, being annoying…to dream of someone who accepts me for all this. But when I woke up, I’d be thinking, does that mean, only in my dreams, will someone accept me for all that I am? It would probably depress me more. But, as you say that DC characters can do things that not even Kuro can, well…Kuro accepted me when I hated myself. When (and I still very often do) think I am the worst person in this world, and I strive to be nicer. Kuro loves me for who I am. And I have friends, who actually like my company! Go figure!!! Because to me, I’m some weirdo sci-fi loving, hopeless romantic, short loud girl…(who wanted to be in the Debate club but left! XD)…
To find someone real, someone who you think in your head you will never meet…to me, Kuro is my dream guy, but is so much more, because the qualities and the way he is, exceeds anything I could possibly dream up, or hope to dream up.
Call that silly, and naive…but ^^
And yeah, if you’d like to go scientifically,
“Love and other moments are just chemical reactions in your brain
In your brain”
I mean if we go into a debate, Angstyboy-san 
we’d have to choose the topic we are actually debating on!
I also, thought of the Holodeck…The character played by Murdock lived in the Holodeck, and based the people on real ones (DeAnna Troi, so forth)…because he was too shy to live a life in the real world…
However, the Doctor, from Voyager, was given a personality through the interaction of the people and the sort of self-awareness…
Where as, I could debate the idea of dreams being another dimension, or maybe to you, better then reality, right now and going to why I posted originally…
reality is something we are experiencing at the moment. To feel things in this world, and that means escaping, from time to time…is all a part of life. But, to dream, and live “in digital”
"do you wonder what it’s like
living in a permanent imagination?
sleeping to escape reality, but you like it like that
[Chorus:]
guilty by design
she’s nothing more then fiction.
she dreams in digital,
cause it’s better then nothing.
now that control is gone,
it seems unreal,
she’s dreaming in digital.
she dreams in digital."
There’s an extent to go to. If living in your dreams, takes away reality…Imagine a tree is reality…if you sit on a branch for the whole of your life, merely tending to the branch, and not taking care of the roots of the tree…the tree will wither. All things in moderation, they say. But saying a DC girlfriend is better then a RL one…I don’t know. In a wonderful sci-fi story, it would be that this girl you were dreaming of was real, she lives in a parallel universe, and somehow, someway she’s come to be with you. But, until I know that dreams are some other dimension, “I wish I knew what you were”… until you do know what she is…does that mean that she is better because you don’t know what she is, rather then loving someone who is just as human, with just as many imperfections as you?
(And yes, you can wake up thinking oh wow, he was so romantic~! I have butterflies when he brought me to the park!!! Just like the dream that inspired me to do Truth or Dare. But, in essence, he was nothing like how it was when I had crushes when I was a kid, and definetly nothing like when I met Kuro. That racing feeling and everything…I can’t describe it to you, but it was just something, so much more. It’s just different. I’m not saying you can’t feel it somewhat, but…sitting in a classroom, pondering over it, watching them live their lives while you live yours…I don’t know how to describe it, Angsty-san. It’s just a deeper part of the heart, rather then a superficial (yet just as strong) feeling from the things I remember.)
(P.P.S. I don’t mean to sound mean, hopefully I’m not in any of these! I just…I’m one for debates, I guess? XD yeah probably…)
Wow Angsty and Hime, you have a pretty big discussion there,
I told you it was a subject to talk hours and hours.
But i think both of you have your point and none is wrong,
I haven’t read everything you just have said because is A LOT, but
I consider what Hime is saying in the realistic view, and also the
cool and fantastic view of Angsty, there has to be a balance between these two views.
BUT WHAT ABOUT 
-when having the girl in RL, you could morph the DC into her, what do you think? although i see that there still controversy there
AventuradeSueno for being the mediator ^^ and all XD
I think that if you morph this girl you’ve been dreaming about…morph the long term DC girlfriend to your realistic one…then that would be kinda I dunno…but if you often dream of the girl you are with, in a dream…as long as you feel that the real life version is the one you want, and you don’t change them… then I don’t see a problem… Because, what if it was a shared dream? Though I don’t know much about them (although sort of having a dream that seemed alot like the dream my friend had the same night…it’s my only experience with a shared dream…)
It might even be a shared dream, ne? (But then Angsty-san will post, aha, Hime! So you agree the dream world is a connection and is real and thereforth…XD I never said it wasn’t this or that…just XD)…
It’s nice to hear, “oh, I dreamt of you, last night ” “really? me too!” … XD… I dunno…Then it could get into the whole…are you living the relationship through the dreams rather then real life…(and thus yucky long debates shall follow)
However, having a dream of the one you like, going out to dinner, or reading books together or bike racing, or fencing…it’s nice it’s sweet… but always remember, it’s attainable in real life too…as long as you don’t neglect the real person, then having a dream here or there about them…I don’t see anything wrong or a point where it’s obbsessive…
I’m not really explaining myself properly here sadly for some reason but…I think I’ve gone a bit too long-winded in the above posts so I’m trying to shorten it XD and to not sound mean to anyone because I don’t want to sound mean and I’m not saying anything is wrong wrong wrong (my whole point was stepping away from reality completely, would be a sad loss would be sad and scary and stuff but…I never said escaping was wrong and I’m rambling and I’m sorry guys I just keep going on and on like that pink bunny!..)
Yeah, and I’m playing Devil’s advocate somewhat, because I’d be a hypocrite if I took everything I said hopelessly to heart.
Well, you’ve typed this entire monotlithic block of text that I could roll my sleeves up and methodically tear apart just for shit’s sake, but I feel like we’re mired in a causal loop of “this or that.”
We’re bringing two completely different perspectives on life and dreaming to the discussion because you live your life completely differently than I do, and it’s like we’re trying to debate who’s is the ideal way of living when our lives only really matter to us respectively - the DC-relationship is just a catalyst.
Besides, I’m too much influenced by Nietzsche and Sartre, at the moment. I assume you’re not. Maybe that’s why we’re not agreeing.
Do we even know what reality actually is? Ourselves, even? Think of the solipsist, to which s/he is the only true consciousness in his/her reality. If you want, you can think of the dream world in such a manner. Now technically, you are the only true consciousness, because you can only validate your own consciousness. And sometimes not even that well. The matter stands that, people who dream of a relationship often times find it indistinguishable from “reality” because for that moment it is completely real. They’re there and it’s happening. How can it be refuted? Reality is something we experience at this moment. Isn’t that the definition of a dream at that moment?
(The tree analogy is flawed. The tree takes care of itself, does it not? Sure, it will eventually wither and die, but that is its fate, just as it is everything else. If someone is happy “dreaming in digital,” then why take that away from them? Because it doesn’t hold to your beliefs? Who cares? Each holds fate in his/her own hands.)
Put it this way, Hime: you debating the validity of, say, my DC-girlfriend, is the equivalent of me debating the realness of Kuro-tsuno to you. A WL-relationship with him is everything to you, just a a DC-relationship is to me with my DC-girlfriend. Speaking hypothetically, of course.
Why can’t DCs have lives, also? Because general consensus says it’s “all in your head?” Well then, you’ve just let society tell you what real and what’s not, haven’t you? That’s what Sartre would call loss of imagination, thus loss of reality. And aren’t dreams just reality on a different frequency?
Just as you tune a radio frequency to a specific station, you so tune reality’s frequency between WL and dreaming, ne? (I’m not mocking you, I just think it sounds cool to mix English with Japanese. 
)
But this is an extremely moot point because of the fact that it deals with love and relationships and “reality.” Who knows anything about that stuff?
I’m just saying to not lose the life you are living or people who might really care for you…to not get locked up in a digital world. I never said the fact of whether your DC was real or not, as I explained, holodeck, doctor…Murdock…o.O Star Trek.
I’m just giving the other view. The post I posted before, saying about the doctor and all, explained that I can’t really say.
The tree isn’t flawed. I was continuing to say, if you sat on the branch all day and didn’t take care of the tree, the branch would break and yadda yadda. I can’t do analogies. I just didn’t want anyone to not see the lives they are living in front of them, or miss out on the chances of finding something in RL worth living for. That was my point of posting in my first post, and then you said do they have to know everything Hime… I was just trying to give another viewpoint, Angsty-san.
I said, holodeck! Obviously, like me not being influenced by Nietsche and Sartre…you are not influenced by Star Trek. Obviously, that is the true reason we do not agree, kudo.
If we were debating on whether dreams could be another dimension, I never said, in any complete truth, “they are not!”…I actually stated in that post that to be honest I don’t know. But, to ignore this reality, to ignore this life that we were given first, (or maybe not first, maybe we just dreamt in the womb)…I don’t know. To me, that would be sad partly. If you were stuck to wires so you could dream all the time, then how would you meet the people on LD you have come to know as friends? I dunno. This is just kinda getting silly and upsetting more so now (to be honest, I was upset at the way you said, oh so they have to know everything Hime…and that’s kinda why I tried to explain more 
)
And I don’t know anything about anything! It’s all unplanned! 
Thus is life in it’s entirety. Even in dreams, you have to deal with that, huh?
But yeah, sorry to have upset you Angsty-boy. (You probably aren;t really, but I am for some reason Because I never said DCs couldn’t have lives, I was saying, maybe in a sci-fi show and so forth! I also said choose the topic you are debating…)
Anyway, like I said, the reason I posted was that I didn’t want anyone giving up completely on reality. But geeze after participating in this topic with you, Angsty it makes me not want to be a part of the reality of this topic…
I’m not upset. I’m sitting back laughing right now - not at you. Just… the topic and some other things. (And I would probably congratulate you forever if you could truly upset me.)
Again, Devil’s advocate, I am - I’m not accusing you of saying anything or slanderizing or anything like that, I’m just bringing up some points in an unorganized manner, which may make it seem that way, unintentionally because I’m not even seriously debating this with you. Unless you wanted to, then we could.
I get your point, and I thought I in some way mentioned that a few posts ago. I’m just bringing up some other points. You know, destructively analyzing it a little.
(Wow, you wanted to join a debate club. You get so upset, easily, it seems…)
Choose the topic I am debating… I’m just rambling, more or less. I would debate with you, but it doesn’t seem you’d want to.
I only said that first thing in jest - “…so you have to tell them everything…” I wasn’t being antagonistic. At least, I didn’t think I was.
So now I make you not want to be apart of the reality of this topic… To be completely honest, Hime, I can understand that, but: wtf?
I mean, you did continue to post, right? In a debateful manner, too…
Easy guys, you might end being romance companion in lds. L L and this debate would end…
No, on a serious note, in actual few words, the ‘standard view’ on this would be that as long as you appreciate WL primary because dreams are just a personal reflection on WL, and dreams as secondary, it would be okay but i heard Angsty saying that dreams are another ‘reality frequency’, well that’s half correct, because is more like a radio signal echo wave, like dreams are not actually a frequency but the waves sent by it.
So, analyzing your debate and my re-analyzing, i guess i should be interested on WL stuff so my dream stuff can have a meaning…,
I refute that, Adventura. See, dreams actually kickstarted the evolution of man…
Okay, but why exactly is a dream a radio frequency wave? Could you explain your logic? Because if the dream is a frequency wave, then what’s the frequency itself?
But yeah, WL does give dreams meaning, whether you want it to or not, pretty much. You could completely detest everything about WL, but that would be the very thing that gives your dreams meaning - WL gives you reason to dream, if only for escape.
Well the frequency is the meaning of life which is to live and enjoy life, dreams still are the frequency but in a personal level…this subject is deep, and to debate this we should first debate spirituality, God etc. which is a deeper subject, and then we would have to move to another forum…
Anyhow, i see dreams like a mirror, it is a mirror, it is not an essence perse but it’s the core of the essence, it’s like dreams are the inner projection of the soul but it’s not the actions perse, the actions are projected into real life, but you could also do some actions in the inner part but still this debate depends on your spirituality view…
But i guess the only way to discover the real deal of life is what is in the afterlife, i believe there is a heaven, and i believe heaven will be pretty much like a ld, so if you dream and dream and don’t do something irl then it’s not worth it, thus making RL/WL primary making the dream world something secondary but still important to the soul.