no new information is likely to be found in the near future and this topic is starting to go into an heated religious discussion.
I will lock the topic … but if anyone has a relevant post to add … just pm a mod and we can easily reopen it again.
The flame war was now removed from this topic too. 
In my science class, I am doing a research project on the physics of the Twin Towers collapse, giving a brief history of the 9/11 Truth Movement, and a summary of some of the other claims made by the movement. Does anyone know the history of the movement? Who started it, etc? Links to articles regarding the physics of the collapse, supporting the official or CD theory would be helpful as well.
Probably the best place to dig up some good info for your project would be on the James Randi Education Foundation’s Website, right here, in the Conspiracy Theory forums.
It’s very anti-conspiracy, a lot of the members have done some good work at debunking a lot of the junk science used in the conspiracy theories (and there is a lot of junk science.)
Any questions you have will be answered very well there.
You could also try posting on the Loose Change forums. Try posting something scientific that goes against what they say in the film, and you might just get banned without warning 
There’s also www.debunking911.com, two of the best resourse’s I’ve found, especially the first site - very unbiased, nothing but the raw facts, etc.
Really? Or is that a joke?
No joke at all 
I went over there a did a few posts, since I had heard rumous that they are not very tolerant of people who are anti-conspiracy. In one of my posts, I made an argument against WTC 7 being wired for demolition in under a week…not one person had the knowledge to counter my arguments (and I am by no means an expert on this stuff), all they did was continue to speculate using innacurate inormation.
In another, I asked about their reasons for suspecting the Government instead of Al Qaeda, and the responses I got were just creepy. People said things like ‘I needed guidence,’ or that I was just a sheep. I was also given a public warning in the thread for something I had said on another, completely different forum…oddly enough, it was in a discussion about how soon I thought it would be before I was banned for asking legit questions.
Since then there has been a big change in the administration on those forums…apparently Dylan Avery wasn’t running the place the way the Admins thought he should have been and many of them have left sicne then out of fustration, so maybe it’s not as bad any more. However there are lots of examples of people asking perfectly legitimate questions and getting banned because of it, which is pretty strange comming from people who claim to be interested in the truth.
That’s really sad. Pathetic even. Truth seekers indeed.
I guess the major question I have for this project is how the movement got started. My best guess right now is that is started with Loose Change, seeing as the story behind it was that it was originally supposed to be fiction, and then Avery and the bunch became convinced that there was indeed a cover up. I assume before making the film, they would have done research on 9/11, and if there was a 9/11 truth movement at that time, they would have found out about it before starting on the film.
I think that the stuff they researched would have been the very earliest incarnation of the truth movement, but once Loose Change was released onto the internet, it helped spread the movement like wildfire.
As far as I know, some of the info they used for the film were from people who were already conspiracy theorists - Moon Landing and JFK conspiracists mostly.
Anyways, there was a legitimate element to the movement at one point in time. There is a group of women called the Jersey Girls who all lost their husbands on 9/11, and it was their press for truth which got the Bush administration to launch the 9/11 Commission Investigation…the film 9/11 Press for Truth covered their story. I didn’t really think the film was all that great, but I think this is the kind of thing that any truth movement should be about, and sadly, any legitimacy or credibility that the 9/11 truth Movement had is long gone by now IMO, lost because of people like Dylan Avery.
Anyways, I’m rambling on now 
I guess my next suggestion would be is to check out the sources sited in the opening credits of Loose Change (my comments below 
)-
A.K. Dewdney - A professor at the University of Western Ontario, Canada.
BBC - This one’s fine.
Christopher Bollyn - This guy is the head honcho of the
American Free press, not exactly reliable news, and not without it’s share of alligations of anti-semitism.
Killtown - Thinks the holocaust was no big deal. I’ve actually had the displeasure of talking to him, and he is not at all interested in the Truth. This conspiracy stuff is a game to him, and the guy needs help.
Although the theory seems to have credence, if it was generally agreed that the government caused the attacks there could easily be some sort of uprising and I would prefer a government that caused 9/11 to martial law or no order whatsoever.
Why doeseverone feel the need for aconspiracy theory??? Just because some of them are well made (not this one) doesn’t mean they’re true!
oh, the goverment actually knewabout it butkept it a secret? That’s the tagline of every group of nutters I’ve heard of so far. Including the ones that believe Earth isactually an old spaceship.
9/11 happened because of terrorism. Live with it.
Now I believe the same thing as you do on the cause of the attacks, but answer me this - Just how do you know that the government didn’t pull off the attacks? You have no first hand knowledge of a single thing that went on to carry out those attacks, you rely only on what others have told you. And most of these sources have bias. The mojor news networks have close government ties, and would not want to talk about the government pulling it off, and whackjob sites like prisionplanet are well, nutty, and they wouldn’t want to to post anything about Islamic terrorists pulling it off. So any information you get on this subject has been passed through a filter, and you have no way of knowing if it is true or not. To assume blindly that “9/11 happened because of terrorism” and that we should all just “live with it” is complete ignorance. True, the information available to us does seem to point in the direction of Islamic terrorists being responsible for the attacks, but we have no way to tell if the info is true. Assuming the info is true, then I believe Islamic terrorists were responsible, but there is always the possiblity that our information has been distorted.
Let me rephrase: I think 9/11 appened because of terrorism.
I think this was the product of Islamic terror, because most of the evidence ponts to that. May I point out, before you accuse me of staining the pure light of the universe because you don’t agree with my opinion, that that is my opinion and I am entitled to it, and entitled to comment on it.
I’m also going to rephrase my other comment. Live with it - the fact that 9/11 was probably, note probably, the work of Islamic terrorists, and that 9/11 probably, note probably (though I actually think it’s certain; again, my opinion) isn’t the work of the American goverment and that people dreamt up this theory because they needed a conspiracy to fill some inner need in their lives.
I hope that’s that clear now.
On a side note, Daylight, I know you’re eager to bash my other opinions, I’ve re-commented on the fire-grid thing.
hehehe, Daylight, you sorta opened a can of worms. Your argument is one that can be argued by anyone over anything. Vichlatti made a judgment call that Islamic terrorists attacked the World Trade Centers with planes based on the evidence at hand. It is necessary to make these judgment calls all the time. Otherwise, where would we be? We would all be philosophers, sitting around, drinking coffee, and discussing how the cup feels warm in our hands, but asking questions like, “Is it REALLY warm, or am I just imagining things?” Sure Vichlatti is ignorant. Hell, I’m ignorant. But so are you as well, and the same goes for everyone here. It is impossible to be fully informed on everything that happened on 9/11 unless each of us was there on that day. In which case, we must make these judgment calls as to who did what, when, based on the evidence at hand.
I fully agree. It just bothers me when people totally write off possibilities, because they are truly endless.
And nobody’s staining the light of anything, I agree with you, the evidence that is presented to me and you and everyone else points to the attacks being carried out by Islamic fundamentalists, and not the US government or Kyle or Steve or Bob. Everything in your post I agree with, I think people have some need of belonging filled by theories like these, and so on and so forth. You just seemed so final about it, and I felt the need to say, “Well, it’s not really that simple.” If you were previously aware of this than that’s great, but it didn’t seem like it in your previous post.
You’re completely right - I was very final about and I shouldn’t have been so critical of it, nor was it right of me to completely close my mind to other ideas. Thank you for pointing that out to me.
On another note, I really have to stop argu- um, posting so angrily.
I don’t think there’s any more of a conspiracy behind the incident than terrorism itself. I don’t believe the Base to be half as serious and professional as the media tends to show it, either. I think they were lucky in a tragic sense.
I also think the political reaction to it, the whole drama that built over the attacks, it was all a bit too far fetched. See, my mom almost died in the attacks. At the time, she worked for Milliken & Co, and went to the States for some sort of training or something (every now and then she had to go there for whatever reason). Now, their headquarters office was in the WTC, and the training was going to take place there. She had arrived in the States in the 10th, and for whatever reason, took the 11 off for tourism. If she hadn’t, she would be in the towers during the attacks. 
I didn’t know she had had the day off, and after the attacks, phone calls to the US weren’t exactly feasible, so for a couple of seriously nerve wrecking days, we got a call from her, and she had been transfered by the company to someplace in South Carolina, safely. 
But even though I was quite involved with the whole thing, I think general reaction of the politicians, the media and the people was a bit too much. What was already a tragedy, and we can all agree it was horrible and obscene, quickly became the single most outrageous happening in the history of humankind—to the eyes of the inhabitants of the only nation that actually made use weapons of mass destruction, to make things somewhat anachronistic and ironic. Soon it had become reason enough for countries to be invaded without the UN consenting, for habeas corpus to be suspended indefinitely and people be arrested without reason but even so without the right to respond in liberty and dignity, for people to be punished first, and tried later.
I don’t think there was any conspiracy involved, I seriously don’t—but the way I see it, an outrageous situation has become the poor excuse for some seriously ill intentioned politicians to subvert the order of ethics, and lead a whole otherwise civilized nation into this disgusting Machiavellian spectacle of fear.
I wouldn’t go as far as that “Fahrenheit 9/11” guy (what’s his name, come again?) and say it was all a conspiracy to begin with. But, from where I stand, I see not one attack, but two—the later, a kick in the groin of democracy and civilization—directed towards the West: the 9/11 plane crashes, and the way Yanks were (ab)used by their politicians on top of, and in (total dis)respect to that.
Michael Moore
Actually after reading up even more about all of this, I’ve learned to lend less credit to he and his films as well.
So after all is said and done, it’s not as if conspiracy theorists aren’t asking legitimate questions. In fact I think they are asking the same questions we, as a global community, should all still be asking…but, I think that they’ve come to the wrong conclusions. As a whole, I think that by now the ‘truth movement’ has lost all the legitimacy it ever had (which wasn’t much to begin with…after all it wasn’t just a rag-tag group of internet researchers calling themselves the ‘truth movement’ asking important questions. We all were, all of us who cared anyway.)
Anyway I’m now (and have been for a while) at the point where you seem to be Bruno. There was the attack, and then the horrible way the attacks were used by the administration…but I just don’t buy any of that thermite/thermate/controlled demolition/NWO stuff.
Me too.
The way the U.S. government used the attacks certianly amounts to conspiracy theory. I’ve discussed the attacks with friends incessantly, and convinced one friend who was into Loose Change that the video was faulty info, and that even if the government carried out the attacks, it didn’t happen in the way outlined in the 9-11 truth movement. So we came to a consensus. It is highly improbable that the U.S. goverment carried out the attacks, but knew of them and purpousfully let them happen? I think that is a likely story.
Wait– According to what I read in the newspaper (and that’s my definition of public knowledge or commonsense, which is why I find it funny that you needed to discuss in order to reach the same conclusion), the Yank government did admit to have heard of the attacks—just like they used to hear of thousands of attacks a day until this one was real. There was just simply no way to check every single story.
this is my opinion, but I do believe that it was an inside job. What plane hit Tower 7? I don’t want to believe that it was an inside job, but I can’t help believing that it was. There is just too much evidence. Like how many of the Suicide bombers on those planes are still alive? Now I’m not to sure about the NWO thing, but I know that as long as there are christians, it won’t be happening.
I think the Popular mechanics article a page back gives a pretty good reason why tower 7 also collapsed. I thought all the suicide bombers died? If they didn’t they weren’t really suicide bombers were they. I don’t see how they could of survived the plane crash. You can’t prove who the plane hijackers were anyway.
I have no real doubt that the event was caused terrorists, but i’m open to any feasible arguments.