I have idea (because there is no one to buy) to create for myself only from scratch using Arduino and on or few it’s components
MyoWare 2.0 - to measure muscle state
Grove - to measure galvanic skin response (this is rather additional)
The method of working is simple - when I fall asleep my muscles are relaxing, so the device detects it and do something eg. give me mild electrical shock or play sound, and this is until I consciously fall asleep (the device stop shocking after some time)
My question is: is it worth my time and money? (Arduino I can use for something different like play with it) or it would rather fail and there is a better to learn entering dream by WILD without help? I need argument to be 100% sure if I should do or abandon this project
I’ll be honest, I didn’t expect that video on that muscle sensor to be so engaging
I find the concept of a WILD device intriguing because I think every dream device I’ve seen has been developed for DILDs.
However, I’m not sure how what you describe will necessarily help with WILD.
Mind you, I’m no expert on the WILD technique. I’ve been a lucid dreamer for over a decade now and I can probably count my WILDs on both hands , I probably average about one a year and it’s almost always an accident in the middle of the night. I found that it’s just not my technique.
Back to the concept you proposed, I’m wondering how an external stimulus that correlates to your muscles relaxing would help with WILD.
My experience and understanding of the technique is that you actually have to let your body fall asleep and also let your mind fall asleep to some extent. I find the technique to be tricky because it requires a specific balance of mind kinda awake and body asleep. In my experience, the consciousness it requires is more like a meditative awareness opposed to active thinking.
In that way, I wonder if a physically stimulating device may be counterproductive to WILD? Because your body needs to fall asleep and bringing in waking life input may just keep you awake and leave you with a poor night’s sleep.
But on the contrary, I wonder if you could develop a technique with the device similar to the goal of the WILD variant FILD. But…even with that in mind, it would be easier and more comfortable to just do the FILD technique with the fingers, opposed to trying to program a device connected to your muscles for some kind of stimulation.
If you were able to provide a little mental stimulation with the device as your muscles relaxed (like a sound as you mention)…it might work to remind you that you’re falling asleep???Maybe?? Big maybe.
I feel like a guided sleep meditation or a recording on a timer could accomplish the same goal, though.
Maybe there’s someone in the forum that has
A bit more insight and experience with WILD that can chime in here.
If WILD is a technique you struggle with, I might instead suggest trying for DILDs? As a whole they tend to be less disruptive to sleep and I find it much easier.
In any case, I don’t think devices are necessarily the best investment you can make in your dreaming adventure. They’re pretty interesting, but your time and energy is probably better spent keeping up with a dream journal, getting to know your dreams, and adopting a lucid mindset (questioning reality and letting go of the conviction that you could know that you’re not dreaming).
Hi thanks for answer! I read about one technique similar to FILD, fall asleep for a while (30s) then wake for brief time and repeat until you fully fall asleep (For this person waking and falling asleep helps conscious state when falling asleep) so this is why I asked this question. I am still Wondering if it is a good idea to do so.I badly want to learn WILD and this anchor could be mine pass to fall sleep with consciousness
I learn DILD but also want to try WILD, maybe You’re right and one thing is needed to learn how to focus or use something like FILD, I thought it could help me but this could be just waste of money and time
If you make it, it will give you some kind of cue to tell yourself you are dreaming (while dreaming) (am I right?)
But that’s not a guarantee for lucidity in itself - you will also need to train yourself to realise it’s a dream when you get that cue. So the thing it will do is give you a guaranteed cue that you are sleeping/dreaming, but it is still up to you to translate that in a lucid dream, eg train yourself to do a reality check as soon as you hear/feel it.
For WILD idk if it will be super effective because it may jerk you out of your sleep/WILD attempt, since WILD is at the onset of sleep, where you are already woken up by tiny things (light sleep).
I didn’t do it yet, I thought that if there is the best way to check if my body is falling asleep is to use it own signals, there is no need to do a shock, it could be also a beep that signals falling asleep to focus for a while.
Yes you could def try that. But like i said before, you gotta train yourself that the cue means you are dreaming. But you will get a guaranteed dreamsign if you have it. Idk if its comfortable to sleep wearing sunglasses though
Not necessary, LaBerge wrote in ETWOLD that with MILD technique this cues could give good result, I assume when you do WBTB and then MILD with intention to recognize signals as something that would make You lucid (If I am wrong please correct me)
What Q means is that your signals are only half of the work. You still have to do your homework for the other half and that is to recognize the signals for their purpose. And I agree with her on that part. A device can certainly help you in the sense that it pretty much guarantees you will encounter the cue in your dream. If you’re doing bare MILD then you are basically relying on your somewhat occasional dreams signs. So that’s the benefit of using hardware. But what comes after your sleeping mind encounters the sign, be it from a device or a dream signed you identified as such, that is the work you will need to put into the technique in either case.
So it just dead end and doing so is rather senseless, I mean building device for my own and better way is to use checked techniques? If so topic is closed I would start new fresh plan for it, better dream journal, more exercises meditation etc and this if I encounter already build device I would try it
We’ll, I wouldn’t call it senseless per se. If you’re the tinker or engineer kind of person then the mere process of building and testing the device might be a fun and thrilling thing to do. You’re going to learn more about hardware, about software, about physiology and about sleep. Who knows when that could be useful at some point in life! So I think there’s a lot to gain on the way with such an endeavor. Don’t unbestimmte the value of skill diversification Only: If your sole goal is to have a fail proof way to induce lucid dreams, like a crazed alchemist searching for the philosopher’s stone to achieve eternal life, then I’d discourage you completely. You’ll be disappointed.
After thinking a bit more about the concept of a WILD device as you initially proposed, I’m wondering if there’s a bit of a limitation to the usefulness of using muscle relaxation as a metric for sleep status.
Do muscles really relax much more when your body is actually asleep than when you’re awake but laying down and waiting for sleep? And if so, can the technology detect that difference if subtle?
And what about hypnagogic jerks? Would that cause an inopportune cue? Or… would it cause an opportune cue since it would mean you’re about asleep? Hypnagogic jerks might actually be a more accurate (although inconsistent and unreliable) metric for sleep status. It would probably only be viable if you actually get them regularly and they don’t wake you up too much and you knew where to put the sensors on your body for your hypnagogic jerks. So…probably still not a compelling option, but wanted to share the thoughts anyway.
@Marvin@Splash
Thanks, my idea was to help myself with WILD or try to induce DILD using some hardware but I think I was too focused on this possibility. I am very interested in “hardware that helps with certain mental tasks” maybe I would try with my friend to do something like this to help with eg, relaxing. I was very influenced by Dormio device but from other side people did it without external help maybe this is caused by my laziness and willingness to have effects (more LDs I have few but want to grow this number) now
Only: If your sole goal is to have a fail proof way to induce lucid dreams, like a crazed alchemist searching for the philosopher’s stone to achieve eternal life, then I’d discourage you completely. You’ll be disappointed.