REM Detecting LED Goggle Device Nova Dreamer Wanna Be Thing

Quest for Lucidity
1

Well…

As some of you may remember I (months ago) decided to try and make a new LD mask similar to the NovaDreamer through my company… The feedback I got was positive and for months I toiled with software and schematics based on an older set of plans I aquired from Djem’s site.

The problem was the plans I got were made for a computer of the early nineties… I am a web & graphic designer, I program VB & Perl/CGI, and I like busting out a soldering iron now and then to tinker with stuff so I thought I’d give it a try at making this work… I teamed up with a friend of mine, an aspiring LDer and with my skill and his wallet…

I achieved more then I honestly thought I would, I had three versions of my dream goggles, each better and more advanced then the last… The problem is I could never get it JUST right. The software worked on my laptop but had to be tweaked to work on any other computer… The LEDS worked on command like a charm, I had a dimmer on the unit so brightness could be set, the software recorded the input from the eye sensors, but the sensors I was using didnt seem to pick up enough of a spectrum…

Alas, I had given up… Then I read this thread: https://community.ld4all.com/t/idea/9388

I saw the last post by Kurt and it put such a smile to my face I dug through my closet and found I had one of my goggle devices I had yet to toss out in frustration… Then I found the source code on my PC…

My question fellow onieronauts is this… Who out there has the bravery, the drive, the determination to help make the first LD goggles available to the average man? If I can get enough support, enough volunteers, and with the forementioned satisfied, if our gracious host would sticky me a topic on the matter in one of the forums, I suppose this one or ‘Lucid Science’… Then I could host a site for (drumroll) The OpenSource LD Device Project!!

I would publicize the source code I have so far, construct some diagrams of wiring, create instructions on the creation of said device (as far as I have gotten in, mind you it still doesnt detect REM right), and host a site where I could keep all this info for the world.

I need help because I am tired of building these goggles! I can write and draw plans, share the source code, help code future code, help individuals with wiring questions, but I need someone to make goggles from my plans, take pictures of the proccess for me to post on the site. I need someone to help me complete the code of the controller program. I someone to help tweak/find a better sensor. I need people to come up with more comfortable designs for the mask… I would say all things into consideration, sales tax, shipping, etc., it costs around $50 to make my unit… So those who would help, need be willing to actually make the unit…

Who will heed the call? Is there any interest in starting an OpenSource LD Device Project? Anyone have a cooler name? lol :help:

2

brindefalk.solarbotics.net/kvasar/kvasar.html

Sorry mate! :wink: I don’t know if the source code is in editable form or already compiled, though.

3

Was that suppose to be a joke? Not only is the link dead, but even if you had that page on your HD, I’d like to see you try and make that device. I’ve seen the page before it appearantly went offline, and not only would it cost you almost as much to make as buying a new NovaDreamer already made, but you would have to know how to program microchips (not to mention have the equipment to do so laying around)

If you read the post you’ll see I am talking about a project consisting of simple circuits, that almost anyone with limited knowledge and a limited budget could produce. Ofcourse, this would only happen if enough people were interested and there were enough people in the forum that were willing to play around with soldering and such, as well as work with VB source code.

4

Oh unfortunately i hardly can tell wheres the minus and wheres the plus on the simple battery so im not much of a handyman:(
Just wanted to encourage you and people who will read this…this is great idea and if u happen to know about all that mumbo jumbo give that man a hand:)
50$ is a good price for such help :smile:

5

macmansit,
great idea. I’ve played around with making dream goggles over the last 13 years, as you’ve found out it’s harder than you’d think but that’s no reason to give up. I’ll help if I can.

6

I’ll give you some help if you want it. I have some experience with trying to make goggles.

7

Here’s an archived version of that page:
https://web.archive.org/web/20030609225304/https://brindefalk.solarbotics.net/kvasar/kvasar.html

8

The kvasar page doesn’t cost nearly as much to build as purchasing a novadreamer does! I’d say the one on that Kvasar site probably cost less than $20 for everything.

I am an electrical engineer and I built my own set of goggles using a microcontroller (like the kvasar site) so it is completely self-contained like the novadreamer. I created mine from scratch without any external help (there are some errors on the schematics on the kvasar site). I’ve had probably around 20 lucid dreams with it in the past couple months, it works great! I’ve been meaning to put some plans/pictures up on the web but haven’t gotten around to it yet. The best part is the whole thing only costs less than $10 to make. What are you using that brings the price up to $50? I was actually thinking of making several of mine and selling them on ebay for around $50 (as it is very labor intensive to build/buy all the parts).

My current design does not have an IR emitter/detector pair. I currently am just using a time delay and was going to add on the IR (for eye movement detection) later but have found no need for it! The time delay works great for me so I figured why bother! It also has a reality check button where a lot of the LD’s stem from.

I’d be willing to help anywhere in the hardware/software design of this project. If anyone wants I can take some pics of my current design and explain how it works. My email address is below if anyone would like to contact me directly.

-Dave
dwax413@yahoo.com

9

I figured no one would believe me when I said I built my goggles for around 10 bucks so here are the parts I am using:

PIC Microcontroller: $3.88

Perf-board: ~$1.00 (from radioshack)

Goggles: $1.00 (I found a thing called a GEL mask at ocean state job lot (a cheap store in new england). I think the purpose of it was you put it in the freezer then you put the mask on for puffy eyes or something. I cut a hole in the goggles and took the gel out and presto, a mask for a buck).

battery holder: ~$1.00 (I think it was less than 50 cents actually!)

2 switches (on/off and a reality check): ~$2.00 (I forget the exact amount but it was only a couple bucks!)

2 LED’s / several resistors / wire / thread (to mount perf board onto goggles): the price on these things was negligible. I had this stuff just lying around but you can buy it all at radioshack for a couple bucks each.

Total: Less than $10
As you can see all the parts range from a couple pennies to a couple bucks at radioshack except for the PIC. All parts can be purchased at radioshack except for the goggles and PIC.

Other parts needed:

Solder/Iron: They had a soldering iron at that same job lot store for $2.99, I got my solder from radioshack (they have the irons too but they are more expensive)

PIC Programmer: I got mine from www.sparkfun.com for $12.99. They have a deal where you buy the programmer/PIC/cable for $20.

10

I wroted in “Idea” topic:

“Im finishing my own goggles tomorrow. They will flash leds couple times and make a beeb through buzzer. This will occure after every 90mins. Electronics are placed inside of sleeping mask or whatever it is.”

And as i said i will be emproving these and add IR-led(s) and phototransistor(s) to detect REM stage.

The heart of my goggles is Atmel’s At90s2313 microcontroller. Without REM stage detecting these goggles are pretty easy to build. I might put some schematics for my goggles some day. Will see :smile:

Im going to post my results with these goggles in that “Idea” topic.

Ps. And also here, excuse my lousy english :eh:

11

Hello Jamiks,

Good luck with your project! I have the same idea in mind (adding the IR in the future). I currently just have the LED’s flashing with a time delay and it seems to work good enough. I bet I could get much better results with REM detection though. I would highly recommend a reality check button. It’s real simple to add in (1 pull-up resistor and 1 switch), and about 5 lines of code. The way I have mine hooked up is when the LED’s aren’t flashing and you press the RC button they flash. When the LED’s ARE flashing and you press the button they stop flashing. Every time you wake up with the goggles press the RC button. I have had a lot of instances where the lights are flashing and I have a FA, then I press the RC button and realize i’m dreaming when it doesn’t stop the flashing! Hope this helps and good luck!

-Dave

12

dwax,

Actually at the moment im programming that RC program in my lightcontroller-unit.

That shows a counter in 2x16 lcd and every 90mins it makes a beep and writes on the screen: “Are you dreaming?” Then it recommends random RC and asks you to do it. After that you choose “Yes” or “No” by 4x4 keyboard matrix :smile:.

It’s almost ready now and i should go to bed pretty soon :eek: . Oh and that RC button, my circuit got 2 of buttons. That’s because with first button i can choose that sleeping thing or different preset flashing frequensies from relaxing to deep hypnosis. The second button is for RC:s :smile:. And btw in At90s2313 you don’t need to place those pullup resistors :smile:.

13

Drax, I said $50 to be safe, and to include needed tools (soldering iron etc.)

HOWEVER, I did not know microcontroler programmers were so cheap!
What langueage do you use to program it? any beginner sites you could point me to? I’de love to try something with sensors…

thanks!

14

well,
you dont actually need to buy any programmer. It’s very easy to build your own “programmer” :smile:. I havent work with pic’s but at least working with atmels microcontroller’s is peace of cake.

If you are trying to build one and using Atmels products, privmsg for me and i try to help you as much as i can :smile:

15

Holy crap!!! You guys actually succeded! I’ll be one of the first people to buy one, garunteed. Heck I’ll buy one now if possible(actually give me a week.)

16

‘Test’ doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t pay for them :smile:
Let me know if you decide to sell them!!

17

Dear dwax,

as I am currently building the mask from brindefalks homepage (kvasar) I would be interested wbout what´s wrong with his plans. Ii would be kidn of you to give me some hints as I don´t want to run into trouble later on. I have almost all parts available now and will prepare the perfboard asap. Also you were right, as the total costs fora all parts is not more than 15 EUR , including the part that you need to build a PIC programmer in order to program the 16F84.

best wishes,

tom

18

Does anyone know what sensor they use in the Nova Dreamer? I understand that it is an infra red, but what part is it?

19

Well, cookie,

I assume that similar to Brindefalks Kvasar they use an IR emitting diode the light of wich is detected bya photodiode being sensitive in the IR range (~900 nm). But I don´t understand what you want to do with that information if you have no clue about all the electronics behind it?

Or did you think it was a sensor that you could buy at Walmart and that you only had to clamp one or two LEDs to it to make it work? “Oh, mom, when you go shopping later on, could you please get me some cans of coke, crisps, some chocolate and … oh … yes… also one of these REM detecting IR sensors that they have on special offer at the moment?” lol

Best wishes,

Tom

20

Hehe yeah you are right about that. But I have some common knowledge and an interest in electronics and computing. I have a pretty good idea on how to build such a device - in theory. Im not planning to go buy parts and build one. At least not right now…

Anyway my guess would be what you said. The movement of the eyelid would (in theory) create minor changes in the intensity of the reflections of the light from the emitter. That could be measured by the sensor diode (in theory). But you need two parts that are compatible enought to give a strong enough signal to be detected by the onchip A/D on the microcontroller. Unless you want it to cost $50 just for the A/D.

I bet it would take lots of trial and error and testing of different setups (preferably with an occiloscope) to get it working in practice. OR you could just use the same setup as the Nova Dreamer, which is likely to work.

EDIT: By the way, my nickname and this account was just meant to be temporary. I didn’t think i would actually return and post stuff here months later :smile: Sorry if i confused anyone - im not a kid and im not always un-serious.

I’ll get a new name soon, cause i feel im going to be a regular visitor and poster.