In my life, I had over 100 lucid dreams, varying from just becoming lucid and losing it in short time, to high-level lucidity lucid dreaming, where I could control EVERYTHING.
But today, I had 3 LDs in a row, I woke up from one into another … I was amased by the quality of the details,I was more lucid than I am in reality… I cannot put it in words but I don’t think those were dreams … I am starting to believe there is another world, before death , after death, in I don’t know what place, I don’t believe in GOD … BUT I AM SHOCKED !!!
Yeah what I mean is …
When I have an LD the feeling is " OH MY GOD I AM IN A DREAM AND EVERYTHING IS BEAUTIFUL AND SO MANY DETAILS … I AM SHOCKED… OH I CAN DO EVERYTHING I WANT "
but on those ‘experiences’ the feeling was " NO WAY THIS IS A DREAM, IT CAN’T BE, IT CAN’T … "
Is a little confusing because IMO Dreams in part are just our subconcious releasing and organizing thoughts but in the other hands there’s have to be more than that.
I’ve had 3 of these. Not a lot considering that’s all I’ve had in 42 years. The vast 100’s of other LD’s don’t compare.
I want to experience that “whatever it was” again more than anything in the world.
It sure seems like it’s more than just the subconscious. If we can do that, then making up “this” world seems like an easier task! This real life thing seems like quantity over quality LOL.
Sureal, I know what your saying. But think of it this way. The question of what consciousness is hasn’t been settled yet. That thing, that spirit of life that makes us sentient beings, whatever it is that inhabits this body while the body is alive, who’s to say it can’t go on a short journey while the body sleeps to whatever other realms are out there to return apon wakening? Can you prove to me that this can’t happen?
I understand the brain can be stimulated to simulate many things but what if during one of these experiences the brain wasn’t stimulated?
I don’t see how the question of did we or didn’t we go to another world be settled.
Attempting to convey what our experience was really like via keyboard is next to impossible. I’ve had low level LD’s, I’ve had high level LD’s but in a vain attempt to describe what happened - in the most profound sense of all my being I WAS THERE.
No, I don’t think I can prove to you that someone’s consciousness could leave their body somehow (but surely they’d then be in some sort of coma - unable to wake up at all until their consciousness returned to them).
On the other hand, I can give a pretty good argument that your consciousness didn’t go to ‘another world’ as it were.
For example, in lucid dreams you can control your surroundings. Were this another world you were in, and not a creation of your mind, you would be unable to manipulate your surroundings, simply because they wouldn’t be made by you.
You would also have no physical body – so unless this was some sort of ‘thought world’ you wouldn’t even be able to interact with it – you wouldn’t be able to touch, to see, to feel or any of the other things senses are needed for nor would you be able to move any objects.
But this would raise a question – what would a thought world be? Quite simple, it’d be information being passed strait to your brain (from an external source), without needing to pass through your senses. But the only difference there is between this new world and a dream would be that the information would be coming from a different source.
This could, of course, be settled in a laboratory (assuming we had a number of people who experience what you are describing on a fairly regular basis of). But as we don’t have either a lab nor a group of people who visit other worlds, we can’t do anything scientifically.
But we could still do an experiment. Next time you achieve such a state, try playing around with your powers – do they differ from normal dreams? Try conversing with dream characters – do they behave any differently from normal.
Of course, you’d have to not be biased to either belief (basically, assume that it could be another world, whilst keeping in mind there’s just as much chance it isn’t).
If you have read of accounts of NDE’s and supposed communication from the dead that have crossed over to the spirit world, these beings in spirit claim to have bodies! Not only do they have bodies but if they had missing limbs or deformaties in this world, in spirit they are whole!
In my travels I had a body, the same one that I have now. Well same shape but without the discomfort part.
In these instances I don’t recall manipulating my surroundings. However from what I’ve read the afterlife isn’t the same for everyone. A lot of it seems to be based on the perception of the viewer. How this can be I don’t know.
Anyway going a bit OT here, just using that as an example.
Sure my experience could just have been a dream I suppose. But the experience was powerful.
I’m certainly an Atheist and yes - I am a skeptic. However, unlike many skeptics, I won’t point black refuse what I’m seeing/being told. I keep a neutral position on many things (which is why I presented you an experiment to help confirm/disaprove in some such what you expereinced)
I don’t know if there is another world out there. There may well be - and it may even be accessble via dreams. However, it seems to me in this case it’s merely a matter of overreaction to just how cool LD’s can be.
I think Surreal has a good point. The mind is much more powerfully imaginitive than we imagine it to be. Though I do believe that other realms or dimensions exist that SOME may or may not have the ability to visit, I also think that many times in dreams and in similar altered states we are more simply “accessing” the depths of the subconscious. And I have yet to meet a real Atheist… most I’ve met are really more like agnostics with a bone to pick against religion (or A religion).
I looked at the religions (the main ones anyways) and seriously considered which could be true (if any). I took into considerating many different things (eg. their history, heaven/hell system etc) before deciding that they’re all wrong.
Thus, God (or any other god) does no exist in my opinion. and I’m not an atheist just cos it’s the cool thing to do - nor do I hate any particular religion (I just feel they’re all wrong).
What else could make me an atheist?
I just think the word “agnostic” is more honest. It says “Idon’t know if there is a God, but I’m open to the possibility of there being one” whereas the word “atheist” seems to me not only presumptuous, but ignorant since it implies that there is absolute knowledge of God’s non-existence (which there is not). And you must have spent a whole lot of time studying the many religions, because there are literally hundreds of them… not to mention even many atheists with multiple degrees study religions for decades and don’t come to any definitive conclusions about whether or not they are wrong. To come to such a definitive conclusion (that all religions are wrong) I would think there are some other factors playing into such a decision such as negative experiences, etc. (That’s why I mentioned atheists tend to have a bone to pick…)
Well, I think it is indisputable that it is another world. The question is then: what kind of a world is it? A fleeting ‘illusion’ or a ‘real’ place?
As Surreal pointed out, it is a place where you have a lot more control over your surroundings but I would argue that this control is no way near total. The unexpected still happens frequently and surprises you, which means it is coming from a source seemingly beyond yourself.
I will admit, however, that it is something of a leap of faith of to believe that it is the same (or a very similar) ‘place’ to where you are before and after death, especially if you have a ‘sceptical’ approach to things like NDE’s. But I think if you are not a materialist the idea of an afterlife is unavoidable and an ld pretty much fits the likely description. One ld I had really cemented the idea in place for me, I was told I was in “the land of Krishna” and that I would one day return, and after hearing this the whole dream finished abrubtly. So I think that if you know what you are doing and live (and die) with good awareness, you can spend a very long time indeed somewhere where all your wishes come true… a fantasy world, heaven, the ultimate ld, whatever you want to call it.
Very true, yet this perplexes me greatly. Without any training or previous experience our mind can spontaneously conjure up a most amazing ‘world’ when we are asleep. What beats me is where this skill comes from.
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… I would love to experiance a dream like that…