astral projection vs lucid dreams

i have read lots but i still cant find a real line between lucid dreams and astral projection they both sound very similar in most ways anyone have any ideas ?

Here on LD4all, most believe thay are the same thing. Since dreams are heavily influenced by your conceptions and thoughts, however, people who believe in AP’s can open up to some very interesting (and powerful, too) experiences in their own way.

It’s the point where Lucid Dreamers devide into two groups. A spiritual and a scientific.

As for me, I’m not setteled yet and I’m changing my possition almost everyday.

Fact is that with a LD you can “simulate” an OBE or an AP (Because you can do whatever you can imagine) Although I don’t think it’s the same thing.

I don’t think this is much about beliefs really. People who have succeeded The Playingcard Experiment will know OBEs are real. I had one 3 months ago but i didn’t get far and it wasn’t similar to an LD at all. I have been trying to get my second OBE since then and i have prepared a card so i can prove i was outside the body.

I believe they are not the same thing as dreams. I don’t believe dreams are entirely in your head since some people claim to have had shared dreams and been visited by AP’ers in their dream.

So if you wanna know what it is instead of believing, you have to experiment.
Thats why I listen to experienced AP’ers who say they have succeeded the experiment like Robert Bruce, Albert Taylor, William Buhlman, Robert Monroe. And I hope to be able to do the experiment myself soon.

I disagree on that. If you have succeeded the playing card experiment i mentioned, you know they are real. No matter if you consider yourself Spiritual or Scientific.