B vitamins good for LDs?

Quest for Lucidity
41

I’ve read that choline and inositol can give you vivid/lucid dreams. Recently my girlfriend got some “Dietary Fat Metaboliser” capsules which happened to contain these two ingredients. She decided against taking them, so rather than waste them, I decided to take them and see what effect they had on my dreaming. The capsules contain the following:

Choline Bitartate 250mg
Inositol 150mg
DL-Methionine 100mg
Betaine Hydrochloride 50mg
L-Carnitine 30mg
Dandelion 25mg
Kelp 10mg
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine hydrochloride) 10mg

I looked up each ingredient on the net and most do, or are thought to, reduce cholesterol, boost metabolism, etc. Well they’re aimed at aiding weight-loss, so that’s no surprise. However, choline and inositol are involved in the manufacture of neurotransmitters in the brain, which may explain the effect on dreaming.

I took 6 capsules last night, 4 the night before that, and 2 the night before that. Every night I’ve had very vivid dreams, especially later in the night/early morning, and became lucid two nights out of the three, although only briefly both times.

This may be coincidence, the placebo effect, or just the B6, but these capsules seem very promising.

I’m not going to carry on taking such large doses, as the Betaine Hydrochloride produces hydrochloric acid (the natural acid used in digestion) and can be harmful in high doses. Instead I’m going to look for some choline/inositol-only supplements and experiment with those.

Here’s a useful link:
healthhelper.com/vitamins/vitamins/

And to those Aussies who were talking about Vegemite earlier in this thread, as a Brit who’s recently moved to Melbourne, I can confirm that in fact Vegemite tastes like CRAP and Marmite is the GOD of yeast-extract spreads. MMMmmmmm… Marmite!

Happy Dreaming!

MisterMoot

42

Can’t beat marmite!!! It is 100% vegetarian and is made mainly from yeast extract. Yum :content:

43

I wish I could find Marmite out here in Oz. I’ve heard it’s sold here but have not seen it anywhere.

I took 8 (probably a stupidly high amount) of the pills i mentioned in my last post last night. I again had loads of vivid dreams and became lucid during one.

It was only a few seconds of lucidity though. I got caught up in the dream. During the lucid moment I jumped down onto the slope of a huge, snow-covered crevasse, only to find that the crevasse was in fact a giant cloud. It felt like I landed in a giant, slightly cold, cushion of cotton wool. The cloud material was like a cross between cotton wool and sorbet. I grabbed a handful of it and tasted it - it tasted like creamy vanilla ice-cream. At this point I got caught up in the dream again and “forgot” that I was lucid, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, I’ve no idea whether it’s just coincidence or if these pills really are having an effect on my dreams. And if the pills are working, who knows which of the ingredients are responsible?!

I’ve read that the first three ingredients (choline, inositol, methionine) can all be responsible for increasing the vividness of dreams.

I’m going to take them again tonight, then have a break for a while and see how it effects my dreaming.

44

Science seems to confirm our positive experiences with vitamin B6 (pyridoxine). Here’s an abstract from a study I found on PubMed:

45

what about taking 100mg of b complex and taking calea z. ?

Would that make the lucid outcomes much higher than b vit. or calea alone?

46

To try B6 I took 2 pills of time released B-complex yesterday.
The total dose contained the following:

B1 100mg (7142% of recommended daily dose)
B2 100mg (6250%)
B3 100mg (556%)
B5 100mg (1667%)
B6 100mg (5000%)
B12 100mcg (11000%)
Folic acid 1000mcg (500%)
Biotin 1000mcg (667%)

The effects on my dreams were very little. I remembered as much dreams as I normally do, and the dreams were no more vivid. Also no LDs.
I did sleep very bad :sad:, but I guess this has to do with the extremely hot weather (34 degrees C).

Maybe I’ll try again friday.

I don’t think I should increase the dose. B6 and Folic Acid are just within the save borders. Folic Acid (B11) can be taken in doses up to 4000mcg (4 mg), but this is not recommended, because it can masquerade a B12 shortage which can be very serious/dangerous. 800-1000mcg is the max for a day. The extreme high doses of 4 mg are only prescribed to pregnant women who have an increased risk of having a baby with Spina bifida.

47

I have the same experience: On the occasions that I took large amounts of B6, I slept badly and didn’t have particularly interesting dreams. could it all be a myth?

48

I forgot to tell that I take half the amount of the above every day for two weeks now… So maybe the difference between tho normal and the high dose is just too small.

Last night I got Lucid and had some FA’s. That’s almost 30 hours later than the big B-dose.

Hmmm, those pills are time released, maybe that time altering thing can happen to those vitamine pills too
:wink: q-:

49

Well ,
vit c is the most rapidly expelled vitamin if you take a to high dosage…because its an acid and your intestines find the ph to low and expel it immediately…thats why its no use of only drinking a big glass of orange jus in the morning because most of the vit c will leave your body when there is no food with it to balance the ph fot your intestines then the acid level is just to high…
A to high dossages of vit b get expelled by the body…but only then when it has already entered your bloodstream…then it get expelled by your kidneys…but in the mean time the vit b peak in your blood is way to high and can give nerve dammage…

Greetings Jeff

50

I’ve heard that there is very much B vitamins in beer. Too bad Im not gonna drink much of that this summer (we are making our own vine 18% very cheap :smile: )

51

:dances:
:grin:
-|-
/ \ I LOVE Marmite :cheesy:

52

This may have already been said, but B vitamins are required in the synthesis of seratonin from l-hydroxytryptophan (5-htp), and they also serve similar purposes with other cns chemicals.

But overdosing on B vitamins is possible, and can have serious short term effects. Fortunately, it is believed that such effects are reversable once an individual has stopped consuming ridiculous quantities of this chemical. Still… it could be heavy on the liver, and generally cause a strain on one’s physiology.

An interesting thing to note is that b vitamins are in KMX energy drinks, and a few other energy drinks like that. Thing is, they don’t list it as B6, they list it’s chemical name. :smile: My thinking is that they want you to think you’re getting something really special. In fact, it’s just a bunch of herbal ‘speed,’ some seratonin precursors, and some vitamins.

53

:smile: I think your right about the energy en trendy health drinks…Davion!

I see it more often these days that they indeed put the chemical name of a vitamin on the label to let you think it is a very special drink…

Further more choline is the basic precursor for our memory neurotransmitter acetylcholine…which is very important for rem sleep…in rem sleep it is a hunderd times more active then when awake…
I tried choline at high levels…choline bitartrate and fosfatidylcholine…and both lead to more lucid dreams in a month…about 20 %.

Best substance to prolong dreamtime / rem sleep is acetylcarnitine…it is scientifically proven that it really leads to more acetylcholine in the brain!

Jeff

54

On the beer thing… i always have very vivid dreams after a heavy drink, though this may be due to other effects of alcohol on the nerves rather than vitamin B. Anyone else find alcohol increases dream power?

55

Time for part II - ld4all.vervex.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=562