believe it or not....

Beyond Dreaming
1

but something really amazing has happened to me in the last few months.

I know this, I am sure of it.

First let me say sorry I have been so quiet the last few months, I am back to chat and share wisdom with you all,

Let me start by telling you all I never believed in God a year ago, but slowly I learned about God and how He really could be there.
I am a Orthodox Christian, (Orthodox meaning, ‘old school/unchanged’ teachings of Christ.

A few months ago, I said a long prayer to Mary Mother of God (I call her Panagia, Greek name for Her). Why did I choose Her? I felt comfortable with it, and that she would listen to me. I apologised for my sins and thanked Her for her Love. I then asked her to ‘show me something’. Give me a great lucid dream or something along those lines, that would be great I told her, but I wasn’t demanding anything.

The next morning I projected astrally from my body. Before this, I didn’t even know if astral projections were actually possible, but this happened to me. It was Sunday at 9:30am (time church runs) when it occured. This really shocked me and made me cry when I realised what actually had happened.

A week later, Sunday morning again, same time, I projected from my physical body again. I then went on about a 2 week break, and it happened again on a Sunday morning around the same time.

Ever since then I am projecting from my physical body almost every time I get a descent sleep, especially if I do WBTB. Because of work and other commitments I often have to wake up early and I miss my chance of it, but if I sleep in, and do WBTB, it will occur.

The last few OBE’s I have seen something so amazing in these astral projections. I have been seeing icons of Panagia around my house, even though they are not really there in the physical world.

Do you see what this is? This is Panagia acknowledging to me the gift She gave me,

Stay open minded, and remember if you want something, just ask God for it, if you really mean it, you will get what you want.

-stranger

2

that’s great to hear stranger - but if i am to truely be open minded i would have to say this.

That is not an open minded statement, just a one of many possible views on why this happened. It is just as likely that you subconsciously believed this was a possiblity whether or not you actively believed it and because of believing it would happen it did.

I don’t mean to take anything away from your success however - astral projection is a great achievement and i wish you much luck with it in the future.

3

sounds like you had a real response :content:
it seems you feel comfortable with Panagea, only natural she be used as a possible message in your projection

4

I read on a OBE’s forum and ther they say that if u are religious “praying( ?)” about having OBE is one effective way to have them…

5

Sounds like if you believe in “god” or anything els, as long as you believe in it well enough you can use it to control your subconcious better, if that makes sense :tongue:
Its 12:00 at night, so I’m not going into a deap explanation about my thoughts on this, but it seems that whenever you think about something without acctually really “thinking” about it just mixing it into something like a prayer the subconcious picks up on what your not really concerntrating on rather then what you are.

If that doesn’t make sense…well…what can you expect at this hour? I must go :sleeping: now…

Mystery

6

like i say in my sig - if you truely believe in something the faith you have in it can make things happen. (placebo basically)

7

Welcome to self-realisation stranger! :cool_laugh: It’s funny… I can tell from your post you’re going through the same thing I am. :smile: I just know when people Know, now.

The skeptics(?) above are also correct, in a way. At the bottom level, we are “making it all up”. That is the ‘subconscious’ (on the individual and collective level) is making up reality as it goes along. And of course, the thing that is ‘making up reality’ is the thing we call ‘God’… (think about it :wink: )

The ‘holy’ figures like Panagia are real alright, on whatever level they exist. Other spiritual planes, conceptual planes, whatever: they exist. Different figures come to different people. In your case it was Panagia, in my case it was Krishna (had an ld in “the land of krishna”!), at the end of the day we must realise that although they appear different they are the fundamentally One.

8

thanks friends

it was trully great to hear all your comforting words, and advice, and opinions!

-stranger

9

I’m sorry if you find this rude, cynical, whatever–but you have just insulted every human being that has ever been tortured. And why? Because you had a handful of lucid dreams. I’m happy that you’ve made progress with your LD/OBE/etc., but put credit where credit is due–on yourself.

Also, I didn’t realize Orthodox Christians didn’t believe in god. Am I mis-reading your post? Did you just become Orthodox? Were you brought up Orthodox?

10

Well… tortured people are taking part in a “wish-fulfillment” situation, if you look at it from the torturer’s perspective…

The torturers had the option of not torturing those people right? And yet they did, because they wanted to for whatever reasons. So collectively the human race is getting EXACTLY what it asks for. Our mindset has made a world where torture happens our chosen reality. If people didnt want to torture and felt they must stop the odd one or two that did do it, then we would have chosen a world without torture.

The tortured individual may not consciously wish it to happen but if the will of others is strongly that they want to torture then torture is what you end up with.

The ‘God’ creative process works on both personal and collective levels. And remember WE are a part of GOD. We are co-creators. ‘God’ is not some guy in a cloud who either does or does not exist, He/She/It is happening right now!

And I would suggest the original poster does not let Vae upset them by belittling their lucid dream experiences. I treasure mine as some of the greatest experiences I have yet received. All our life experiences are as valid as anyone elses.

11

Stranger, this is really great and inspiring to hear. I believe you. The word “God” these days can be treated with the same amount of controversy as a swear word. I’m sure the hostile responses to your positive messages can easily be overlooked by you. Thanks you for sharing with us, and I hope you continue to share your experiences.

I have contributed prayer to a lot of positive change in my life. I often pray right before bedtime, … if I’m not too sleepy and fall asleep. :wink: I also have read very many suggestions to ask for “white light to surround you” if you do attempt an OBE.
Who really cares if it is placebo or not, if it works thanks for sharing.

12

That was hugely redundant and completely unnecessary to say. Torturers want to torture–I think we can consider that a truism. My point is, how can you look at an act like torture, and then place lucid dreaming “above” it when deciding if there is evidence for a god or not?

I’ll rephrase what I mean, to make sure I’m not causing any unnecessary confusion: It is my value judgement, my emotive, conditioned response, that anyone who says there is probably a “god” because they’ve had an increase in lucid dreams–while events like torture happen round the clock–is possibly insane, and definitely selfish.

What is this silly rhetoric supposed to accomplish? I am not god. I am matter arranged in a very delicate way. Throw me out the window, and I’ll hit the cement. Catch me on fire, and I’ll burn. Cut me deep enough, and I’ll stop breathing.

If one believes their having lucid dreams is more important than other people being tortured, then I absolutely mean to insult and belittle that person. I want to be clear on this now. If for any reason you believe some “higher” intelligence exists because something happened to you to make you slightly happier, while thousands of people have a decrease in their happiness, I hate you. Can I make this any clearer? Is what I just said confusing in any way? Using anecdotal garbage like this for proof of god’s existence just ruins my day. Every time I begin to think that perhaps the world’s getting a little more sane, I have to read about the latest newage superstition, or the oldest fairy tale in the book. And I realize again and again that we are still in the middle ages, and that we’ll always be in the middle ages. Because humans cower and quiver and invent ghost stories and god stories, and let their brothers and sisters burn at the stake for their own peace of mind.

It doesn’t matter though. I’ll retreat back into my apathy and venues of escapism. I’m done trying to convince anyone about anything. So superstition wins–which really just means we all lose again.

13

Vae Victus, you are taking this topic into the same age-old argument “is there a God.” There are many other threads here more appropriate for that topic than this one.

Stranger has obviously had a belief system before this prayer or they would not have prayed to begin with.

What on God’s green Earth are you talking about. I totally don’t understand why someone’s belief in God could make you hate them. I also don’t see why you are comparing LD with torture, and making the assumption that because a prayer seemed to be answered it makes it “more important” than torture. Nobody has said that here, you are making up a scenario and then arguing about it.

The amount of intolerable behavior you display is worse than any religious zealot that I have ever came across. You admit to attempting to belittle and insult a person simply because you disagree with them.

Yes, You are wasting your breath. Preaching and spreading the word on Atheism is always going to have a counter argument.

14

I am not usually one to make a final dessision on an argument, I always make up 2 sides of the everything but in this case, all I have to say is:

Any type of “god” doesn’t exist! so just move on with your life and stop argueing about nothing, its great that christians help people but why do christians have to do it alone?? do they think they’re special?? NO, they do it because they believe in “god”, so why can’t we just help people anyway!! Why do we need a reason, like a “god” to do it?!

Mystery

PS: “helping people” was an example.

15

I agree with this post.

I’ve only just checked back here and I must say Vae I am quite disgusted by your post. I don’t hate you, I just wish you’d do a bit more thinking for yourself ABOUT yourself before you shout off your mouth with ill-thought out philosophy.

And to the guy who claimed to wrap this up by saying God doesnt exist:

What kind of a dumb model do you guys have of ‘God’? When you say he doesnt exist, you have made an assumption about God. You have assumed He/She/It is the kind of thing that either

EXISTS
or
DOESNT EXIST

You then decide the latter: that he doesnt.

What I am TRYING to get through to you people is that God is not like Santa Claus, or the Yeti, or the Lock Ness Monster. He is not a ‘thing’ in the sense that he either ‘exists’ or ‘doesnt exist’. The out-dated “guy in the clouds” god of some religions may or may not ‘exist’ in that sense, but Godhead, the thing that is going on right now, the thing that YOU are… aggh I just can’t be bothered. I am going to write up a full-length essay on how I feel and post it up. You can then make your own minds up.

16

And Mystery: if mankind doesnt get himself a decent meta-physical philosophy (call that ‘God’ if you like) then he will doom himself to destruction.

Look at it this way… it actually pains me to pretend to see the world in such shallow terms, but look at it this way: if we are just on this rock, and this rock is spinning through space, and thats it…

Then why the hell NOT torture people? Why not rape, murder, steal, harm, mutilate, kill, defile, insult, upset and lie? Why not do these things if they help you get more than other people have? Because if this is all there is, then having more than other people is a perfectly acceptable philosophy to adopt.

Sure some people could say “well, we’re here and thats that” and decide to be nice. But for every one of those, one could decide to be nasty because it would be an equally valid conclusion to come to.

BUT when you realise that YOU yourself are a part of this thing we call ‘God’, if you realise that you are absolutely inseperable from everything else in creation, that EVERY single child born into this universe is a fresh incarnation of GOD, then you HAVE a reason to be ‘nice’. Don’t get me wrong, you realise you can be as nasty as you like… but you also realise this is just ultimately self-destructive. Being Nasty loses it’s appeal. In fact… anything negative loses it’s appeal because you can appreciate this incredible thing called ‘Life’ as something holistic, something that YOU are integrally a part of. You can realise that you sitting there typing out a message to a messageboard is in actuality just as important to the universe as the sun rotating on its orbit or anything else!! That just as you are inseperable from the universe, THE UNIVERSE IS INSEPERABLE FROM YOU!

If you don’t get the signifigance of this, consider the nature of your own consciousness more. VAE You will not find your consciousness in your body! Until you realise this, you can’t even BEGIN to think philosophically! No offence mate. :content:

17

Hi everyone,

got a few things to say,

yes I believed in God, before hand. I was baptised and born an Orthodox Christian.
I am in NO WAY saying that this faith is the one and only best faith, all I can tell you is my experience. I do believe anyone who has any belief system, has the power to do what he/she wants with their mind, GOd is up there, all around, he is everywhere.

I Vae Victus u say “you have just insulted every human being that has ever been tortured.”

How did I insult anyone who has been tortured? I know life is not fair, believe me I have not had the best life, and am not at all having a great life now. We all go through bad times, some more than most, and yes I do consider myself lucky, as I have seen some people be forced to live through so much crap.
What about all the children dying in Iraq getting killed by America who want the country’s oil (money). I feel so sorry for them…

The great thing about life is that we all have the same powers. With our mind, we can unlock and do what we want, that is, if we really want to.

Today’s world is so difficult, because it is so narrow minded. The society we all live in (most), restricts our minds to only thinking of speicifc things. That is why we are so dumb as humans, using only 15% of our brain…

As they say, “Think outside the square you live in.” Thats a great saying,

DreamAddict, im glad you could understand what I am trying to say.

all the best,
-stranger

18

All this is is superstition.

19

Geeze, stop this people. There have been members to leave LD4all because of the type of intolerable behavior some of you display. This is a forum that tries to have every belief system feel welcome. If you disagree with a belief system, please reply in the appropriate threads.
Stop high-jacking threads of people that choose to believe this way, and turning it into yet another “belief system debate.”

20

I’m sorry but I have to voice my opinion in this. I’m not doing this to be proud, rude, or belligerent, I’m just doing it becuz i care and bcuz i want to serve God and i feel he wants me to speak up. plz take the time to read this. In the end u must choose wut u r going to believe, be it true or false and im not trying to force the truth down ne1’s throat but mayb wut i say will make u think. stranger: u say u asked God when really u prayed to mary, plz don’t get me wrong on this but this is wut i believe and im only trying 2 help. No man is like or a part of God in the way that u say it. Yes, we are like children of God but not god himself. we r not god incarnate. he can work thru us and in a way become incarnate thru us at that moment and his spirit lives within us (if we have asked him into our heart)BUT, we ourselves our very being and soul are not god. We r children of God but not equal to god. his love and sacrifice (Jesus Christ) as well as the fact that he created us are why we are his children. We were created in his image, meaning we have the capacity to love, and feel, and think. but we are sinful and unequal to god. But heres the thing guys, this is wut a lot of ppl (even many many christians) dont understand: God loves us more than we can imagine, he wants us to strive to be to be kind and loving and holy but no matter wut, god loves the lowliest of mass murderes just as much as he loves holiest men to walk the earth. We have to get past all this religion crap u guys, god just wants to have a relationship with us. Vae: wut u said seemed to make a bit of sense and at the same time u seemed to be arguing against something else no1 was even tlking about. but i think i get wut ur trying to say and i sort of understand, but listen: every1 in life is going to have they’re problems life is filled with sin and unhappiness. There are ppl who have it all riches, house, wife, kids, talent, everything and they are still just as miserable as if they were tortured. There are ppl in other countries starving or being tortured but they still have joy, not nescecarily happiness but joy, bcuz they know God, bcuz they no wtvr happens they have the love of god. they know that he has a plan for their life, he will find a way to use it for good even if they never noe of it themselves. they noe that even if this life sux their going to have eternity with him. god is just and he hates sin more than we do, he doesn’t allow sin he tried to prevent it but bcuz he loved us he gave us free will, so we could chose on our own to love him. but he promises those who love him will have eternal life without sin or starvation or unhappiness when they die. vae, i would really like to tlk to u i really do care and im not just trying to say all this stuff in arrogance in my beliefs or wtvr. if u would like to tlk private message me and we can tlk like that or i can give u my email or aim. that goes for ne1, if u wanna tlk just contact me. thnx.