Wait, so there are characters of your mind who have distinct personalities that you can actually talk to and interact with. 
yes. you create them and then talk to them. it may take a while to get a response, but yes. 
mine are Bobby [“What? Why are you bothering me?”], Jack [“Hi, there! Are you interested in CALD?”], and End [“Um, hi. …”].
Yeah, it kind of runs on the principle that if you can have a DC inside of a dream, why can’t you have one outside of a dream? It’s the same thing, except with CALD you have “dream characters” outside of your dreams to interact with. You can use them to help you with lucidity, help you study, or whatever.
Thanks for your kindness and good wishes!
I had a long talk just earlier this evening, actually. I ride the regional buses wherever I need to go, and today I needed to commute a bit, so on my way between towns I took out a pencil and a big notepad and waited for a response.
The noises on the street can distract me enough to make it hard for me to distinguish my words from theirs if I do it all in my head, and I couldn’t talk out loud on a public bus, so the written response way was ideal at the time. Maridadi was the one who came up.
ALSO, it’s pretty long. this took place throughout about twenty minutes. Hectic scribbling took up most of that time but it’s still sort of long
[spoiler]M: Don’t you have anything better to do?
P: Not particularly…at least nothing I can do on the bus.
M:I can think of about five good reasons you’re BS-ing me right now.
P: Maybe so, but-
M: Not maybe, definitely. You’re a chronic procrastinator.
P: Can’t argue with that last bit, but anything more complex than this and my writing would be barely legible.
M: Barely is the key word there. You ought to be taking notes on L’s project or brainstorming your physio. assignment, since we both know you won’t do it once you get back home.
P: (I was silent for a second. She was pretty much cornered me with that one)
M: See? You know you can’t argue with me. Put down this page and whip out something productive instead.
P: You’re sort of making me feel bad.
M: Good. Maybe that guilt will kick you into gear.
P: Maybe you’ve got some suggestions?
M: That’s not what I had in mind. At all. But it’s better than nothing, which is what I’d expect you to deliver.
P: For physics then. I know you’re more of an anatomy buff, but you’ve got something up your sleeve, I can tell.
M: Alright. First off, your partners are idiots.
P: The’re friends of mine, and they’re no les skilled than me in that subject.
M: They’ve got their heads in the clouds.
P: And I don’t? I’m the one giggling like a pre-teen at a miley cyrus concert over superposition of waves
M: You’re not the one who suggested “The Physics of Playing Video Games” as your project subject.
P: I don’t really see anything wrong with that Idea.
M: Yes you do! You wanted to research superconductivity or quantum electrodynamics, not how much force it takes to press buttons on an Xbox controller!
P: It’ll be original though, won’t it?
M: Like hell it will. And on top of that it’ll be boring. I say ditch 'em and start googling Strange Matter instead.
P: I use dogpile…
M: Since when?
P: Since eighth grade.
M: That’s beside the point. And stop defending your classmates, you and I both know they annoy the hell out of you.
P: Only while I have to pretend to know what “You’ve startled the witch!” means.
M: My point still stands strong.
P: Only while my desire to rebut sits still.
M: Don’t try to confuse me with metaphors, I can see through you like glass.
P: For someone who hates the abstract, you sure use a lot of simile
M: You’re changing the subject again. What happened to wanting my opinion?
P: You’re suggesting that I work solo on a major physics project and hurt my friends in the process. You know me better than that, I’m okay with a boring project as long as-
M: You’re not okay with it, you’re just going to settle for less than you’d prefer. A lot less. Don’t think I didn’t notice you window shopping for crucibles and yttrium online.
P: I wasn’t seriously considering casting a YBCO superconductor in the middle of a 2nd story flat!
M: But you were! You’ve always wanted to! You’ve even looked into prices on liquid nitrogen and finding research papers on flux pinning!
P: (another pause. She had me beat again.)
M: So what’s holding you back? Other than your classmates I mean.
P: Funds, free time, and safety regulations for starters.
M: Metalworking shops are notorious for wildly varying prices between distributors, and you’ve got plenty of free time as long as you keep your feet on the ground.
P: And the liquid nitrogen?
M: (Her turn to pause uncertainly. Not a reaction I often get from her)
P: Besides, superconductors are ceramic, not metal.
M: The tools involved are identical, and the fact that you’re thinking about this so seriously just proves my point. You want this.
P: But I can’t. Being optimistic is fine, but you’re not thinking clearly about this. There are a hundred things that could go wrong with the casting alone and where would I get my hands on a rare earth magnet for a flux pinning demonstration?
M: Way to put your foot in your mouth, you’re only driving the point home with all that technical talk.
P: How about you talk to me about the Physio. project instead?
M: Why, so you can argue with me about my ideas on that too?
P: That’s not what I mean
M: There’s nothing to talk about. That project’s supposed to be stupid fun.
P: I’m no good with stupid fun.
M: Neither am I. Who do you think you’re talking to…Myelin?
P: I guess you’re right about that.
M: No, you know I’m right about it. Close up this notebook and brainstorm. Get RANDOM or Myelin to help you out.
P: Alright. That sounds like a good idea, thanks.
M: Just hop to it already.[/spoiler]
-=-
I learned later that the whole thing was an elaborate distraction that Myelin set up to keep me from falling asleep on the bus (motor vehicles knock me out fast.) Since I’ve been having even more trouble than usual sleeping at night.
Like I said, he’s ever the compulsive altruist.
Creating characters to talk to in waking life… this is a first lol. AS you know its possible to probe your dream for future events; if these characters were created in the dream,and are now in waking life, cant they retrieve information relating to future events? And also, you dont find any instability in creating these characters? That maybe you could be setting a stage for a future split personality disorder(Of course such a disorder is to the extreme, in which you are taken over for a brief period buy your “alter ego”)? I’d be curious to ask such distinct characters a few questions, actually, a bunch of questions… future events, If they are dangerous to my health, I would ask them to give me answers for a test just to see the extent to which they are buried within my mind; how deep are they within the mind.(maybe able to retrieve unconscious information). If anyone wants to try anything i suggested or has, let me know what the outcome is or was.
Well, some know, I’d be willing to bet, but usually the ones who do know aren’t going o tell you, and most of them don’t know about the future. I have had them warn me about things before, and help me chase off some people that I really didn’t need to be around and I couldn’t get to leave me alone, but I’d say it’s unwise to approach them (or anything) as a means to an end such as that. They are intelligent and they probably won’t like that.
As for taking over the body fully, I’ve experimented with that, but I’ve never achieved a full swap. I’m always able to stop and take back over whenever I feel like it.
—Arent these characters you? If you asked them for some future event, and it came true, then that proves that humans have the ability to scan into the future and such things as that. These characters are in the deeper realm of imagination and thought, but they are not independent beings, they are aspects of the persons mind and its creation. And to avoid angering one of your characters, cant you create a character that has a role for one thing only, such a character who was designated a strength in helping you focus. Why not create one that specializes in telling future events?
You could ask them for something that is going to happen in the future, but that follows the same principle as asking a DC inside of a dream. You aren’t guaranteed to get an answer, and if you do, you aren’t guaranteed it isn’t going to be rubbish. And if you follow the theory that they are just a molding of part of your mind, and thus part of you, instead of being an independent, in whatever form, then you must also accept that you would already have to have that ability developed within yourself enough that you could do it before you could create another part of yourself to do it. You can try, but I don’t think that this will help you to see the future.
Yea, I see what your saying, but the idea that what your getting could be complete crap or something useful applies for almost everything, its trial and error. But i was thinking that by creating such characters you are building a bridge to a certain part of the brain that is usually partially accessible in our lucid dreams. Now I do believe that our dreams arent a part of just our mind, or fabrication, but their are elements that are other worldly at times. Sharing a dream for example only raises the question that humans might hold the ability for telepathy. Creating characters that can predict future events in waking life at the moment you ask them to, might show that humans have the ability to predict the future because these characters are a fabrication of ones mind. with all these things, we must be retrieving this information from some part of the mind, and brain.
Not much just some random argueing here and there lol XD
I’m in the mist of my mid-year exam
Got bored last night and played with the eLouai’s dollmaker and decided to make my GCs (I’m gonna call them guardian characters lol x.x) into… dollies~! Lol.
This what I got:
Desmond 
As you can see he is the more serious, mature type =3 [/img]
In case you don’t know his not single, he got a little cute family of cute kiddies~ pat little Dean’s head 
and…
Thunzar…
the complete opposite of Desmond. A fun, wild, cool kinda guy [Thunzar: 
]whose reaaally outgoing and HE is the one who I ALWAYS argues with. 
I actually wanted the doll to hold a mike cause his a singer in my dreamworld but it doesn’t bring out the fun in him so yup, a casual outift would do best~ XD
Hehe…wait…those pictures are allowed here right? 
Wow, that’s a pretty spiffy app. I’d try it out if I had any…vaguely human characters.
Instead my only real option is drawing, which I’ve been doing a lot of lately. Here’s a little sketch of me (The little guy with the featureless face in the middle) with my closest characters:
-=HEADS UP=-
I’m invoking the Wookie Rule with Myelin and Lairuna. If that bothers you then please, PLEASE let me know, it’ll only take about two minutes for me to touch up in photoshop. There’s nothing pornographic about it, but it’s something I think should be brought up just in case.
SPOILER - Click to view
Illustrating my preferred method of communication, writing!
From left to right we have:
RANDOM - largely incapable of forming complete sentences and strongly inclined toward unprovoked screaming, sometimes from excitement, sometimes from anger, and sometimes it’s anybody’s guess.
Myelin - The compulsive altruist and all-purpose shoulder to lean on. I had some inspiring dialogue with him today.
Akhattamir - The angry one I mentioned. He has a strong distaste for living things and loves putting other people down. Sort of like House without the vicodin…or powers of deduction…or any redeeming qualities whatsoever. Somehow he’s still awesome to talk to though
Maridadi - The infamous ferret that created herself and then handed me a beating on a silver platter, now the closest of all my characters.
STOLID - Mentioned him before as well, I believe. His formal facade hides a creative, mischievous side.
Kimor - Just floating there, being generally awesome.
Lairuna - Lives to see how people react to being tempted by subconscious impulses (hunger, libido, jealousy, ect.) but knows where to draw the line between interesting and creepy. (most of the time)
Oh my, quite the busy day today!
Lovely dolls there, I like them quite alot-- your characters are quite handsome I think! ^^
Phi: I apologize I couldn’t read though your entire post-- But it’s nice to see that you can get some decent conversation out. At least your characters aren’t puppets. Why don’t you start your own chat-log? That way you can look fondly back at your previous convos. :3
Achak/Wolvendeer: Oh wow. Very interesting conversation. I don’t really hold a position on a human’s ability to predict the future-- as my belief is that destiny is just the product of today’s circumstances. Prediction to be is just being able to comprehend and project (plausable) events. If some people can subconsciously do that, certainly characters may be of use to obtain that information within the context of a lucid dream.
However, I believe that while most every character (with exception to some dream characters that become developed, depending on your beliefs on the origin of dreams) begins within the human mind, at a certain point of development, may be recognized as entirely seperate and so a valid existance in his/her/it’s own right. This doesn’t affect their ability to aid humans as helpers, as they must, for the most part, exist within our minds, but acts as clarification on my stance on Character validity.
As a note: Creating developed characters will not set up any form of mental illness in any healthy person, unless taken to an extreme, as with all things. A key point I stress is that their reality (that of the non-physical) and our own reality (the physical plane are completely seperate. There is no way for a character to become a physical existance. Understanding of this point is a critical safety measure in the use of CALD that not many people seem to notice posted. Proper rules should be set up within people’s interactions to appropriately restrict any impositions on a characters part.
The human’s health comes first. No if’s ands or buts.
In my own rules, it’s clear that if any character poses a threat, I am ready and willing to cleanse them from my system, but it’s never been a problem.
This was discussed a few years ago, but I think I’ll need to set up a pre-caution thread, since CALD is becoming more contreversial through age.
Oop. My whole post didn’t make it…
Also, on the subject of characters coming into the physical realm through “borrowing” a body:
If understood that a characters rightful place belongs in the non-physical realm, and above mentioned precautions are taken, I think this can work.
If we here at the forums readily accept that this body is just a physical vessel, it’s just another step to understand that developed characters could, in theory use the vessel as well.
If kept in check, and supervised by the body’s owner, I think that the character could visit our physical reality in a healthy way. Sort of like reverse- dreaming? In any case, while obviously a subject of fascination, I don’t think characters should be allowed to come to the physical plane without good reason (of which I fail to come up with right now) to avoid the concerns that Achak mentioned above.
A chat log. It’s so simple and yet so brilliant! Thanks for that, I appreciate it.
ALSO Don’t worry, I know it’s a long talk up there. The fact that you even attempted to skim through makes me feel sort of warm inside XD
O_O Well spoken, TA.
This thread is definately busy today alright! looks at how many replies I’ve missed
Lol am I the only one having humans as gcs?
Haha, Thunzar claims he is handsome that’s why his surrounded by fans every single day in the dreamworld. I must agree… there’s seriously too many girls
kyaa-ing around him >.>
Desmond just said that his normal looking lol {admires his humble-ness}
and nice drawings Phi~! thumbs up^^
I can never draw my characters out unless it’s in stick figure form XD
So Talon, are you saying these Characters exist within a different realm separate from ours? Meaning they are real to some extent in there creation? Because if this would be true(no way of knowing so far), then this would bring forth the idea that we as humans are creating things that exist within a different realm, and this means when you destroy them or cleanse them of your mind you are hypothetically killing something that exists outside of your mind. For me I believe in different planes of existence, or astral planes, whatever you want to call them. From conversations iv read, the only thing that I can imagine that would somehow show these characters exist outside the confines of your imagination and mind, would be if you found out someone else had the same character as you(but this could also involve telepathy, and projecting your thoughts onto others). Another way would be to see if these characters lived past lives, which could actually be lives that you yourself once lived which once again is another loop hole to proving they are real.
The creation of these characters is nothing new. Books, Video games, tales of Gods in greek mythology all started with Human imagination and Curiosity. We all know too well how Characters of literature and such, were intended to seem real. The basic point is, instead of unleashing you Character into the real world, you are simply interacting with an idea which is only real to the extent to which you want it to be. I’v read some of the conversations of certain Characters on the forum, and they all seem no different from our daily thoughts and conscious ideas. It seems that what has been done is, a shell has been created for these ideas to be poured into, separating and focusing on these traits, giving them a distinct position in our mind, which gives way to these Characters. An example is; You are riding a bus, and on the trip you decide to interact with one of these characters, and write down the conversation you have. Instead of indulging in this conversation, The character tells you, “you should study on something instead of recording our conversation”. Such a remark is no different than your daily thoughts and conscious. Ever try to avoid homework, and procrastinate? Well you know you should be doing the work, and you know you should start it. These Characters are simply reporting your thoughts and feelings.
I’m not saying these Characters are bad, not even close to what im trying to say, and im not trying to insult anyone or tell them they are wrogn, but im trying to delve into there creation and understand, how, and why. Questions of how real are they? and what would it mean if they were real? The mind is a powerful tool, even after so many decades of research, the brain and mind still elude us to this day.
Im just interested in this whole idea, if you have any theories or ideas, and want to share, id be keen to listen.
SO I wanted to ask, has anyone with Characters ever asked the Character to solve a real world problem, and had gotten the answer without you actually solving it? Which means that the Character gave you an answer and you have no recollection of actually solving the problem yourself, or find a problem that you’ve never encountered before, and gaining a response from that . example: A math problem.
Phi: :] No problem, I thought it’d be an appropriate suggestion.
Achak:
Yes I believe that characters exist on a completely different plane. In saying that though, I also believe a majority of characters live in their creator’s minds. The conceptualizing and thought bit of mind, I believe, also exist on a non-physical plane. While the brain itself and the electrical pulses are tangible, I do not believe that abstract thought itself is.
As I’ve said before, I believe that anything experienced or comprehended is a valid existence. Real is a question of ‘is it important or not?’.
On the note of what is real [Referenced later]:
[In being on LD4ALL, undoubtedly everyone here has asked themselves the question, “What is real?”. We know we are not dreaming when reality checks tell us so, but sometimes they also fail. So how can we tell what is waking reality without question? How can we tell if our perception is warped if we are, in fact, asleep? Stretching that concept, how do you know that anything is anything? A philosophy teacher once taught me this concept. Every perceived bit of ‘valid’ information can be questioned with “How do you know?” And eventually, there is no answer that is provable. Most resort to “I just know”.]
(As a note: I think that the abovementioned theory is more detrimental to mental health than character creation!)
Because I feel that characters are [in most cases] born in the mind, and [in most cases] exist almost entirely within their creator’s mind I don’t feel that we are creating something in another realm.
I also don’t feel that we are exterminating or killing characters by clearing them from our own minds, because I feel that they are then given the opportunity to move on, just like evicting a misbehaving tenant. However, I feel that characters “die” or fade from existence, when they are forgotten completely with no records, just as people do. In that sense, I think that dying is may be the same for both characters and people, we both stop perceiving, and are lost forever from existence once forgotten. However, on a brighter note, I also believe that both characters and humans may move on to a form of an afterlife—If people become ghosts, then maybe characters become dream figures, or something of the like—In any case, continue conscious existence.
I think you’re very perceptive! It’s good you came to the conclusion that finding an identical character in another person’s mind may prove the valid existence of characters. However, generic characters show up often, affected by stereotypes and trends in popular media. Characters can be created and recreated in different people from ingrained archetypes over the ages, and so finding a stranger with an identical character, though unlikely, is completely possible. So, finding the same character twice, as you said, doesn’t prove characters to be valid.
A valid existence depends on the definition of the person considering it.
Let me try to re-state that—
What is real to you depends on how you define what counts as legitimately real.
No matter what theories I present, ultimately it comes down to individual’s concepts of a valid reality.
If one believes that the human mind can actually create a non-physical existence, then perhaps they will accept the concept of creating sentience as well.
If one believes that the human mind can only affect what it perceives, then they will always be inclined to believe that any non-physical existence that does not present outside information (as in something you didn’t know beforehand) will only be a part of the human mind.
However, in the case of characters, in my belief, having those characters originate from the human mind and becoming valid through sentience, but also being restricted by human perception [at least for now, since my character and I are still working on breaking certain innate barriers] limits just how much can be presented in the way of outside proof that he [my character] exists.
i.e. I don’t any proof past my word and convictions.
Ultimately, it all comes down to faith [not religious in any way!]. A friend once told me that faith is the belief in something we cannot see.
How about belief in something we cannot know? As mentioned above before, sometimes, the final answers we have to defend ourselves are our oh-so-not dependable [sometimes] feelings and beliefs.
With a subject such as characters, I think it sort of breaks down into that…
Oh yes, to clarify on the point of characters conversation being parallel to normal thought --that makes sense to me! In my belief, most characters are restricted by their creator’s knowledge base and perception. What else is there to talk about when that’s all you know? A more interesting idea with characters is that they can, in some cases, tell you things you did not know about yourself. This is seen throughout lucid dreaming with dreamers questioning dream characters to learn more about themselves.
As for how real characters are:
As mentioned above, I think that ‘real’ depends on the person considering it. But how real a character is may mean how ‘realistic’ is it, so, ‘how deep is it’s personality and being’. But do you mean how valid is a character’s existence?
Oh my… What could it mean if character were ‘real’? Nothing to those who created them and enjoy their company. We already view them as valid. But if it were to come to global acceptance that characters are to be recognized as such, it may result in fights for rights for characters, A LOT of arguing, and general confusion… Or in a optimistic view, a new era of awareness and a new way to harness information and to learn.
Somehow, though, just though the few people who have passed through this thread, I don’t particularly see that happening :P.
I’ve seen in my best friend her characters giving her advice and it working—I’ve also seen that because one of her characters is much more level-headed and calm, he handles problems much better than her, but I wouldn’t be able to say in my own experience that any of my characters have given me solutions to problems like that—I make it a responsibility to myself to deal with my own problems! Haha :3.
Math problems might not be the best example, if a person has the ability to [near] instantaneously comprehend and solve a mathematical problem they are not consciously aware of(and some mentally affected people do), their characters may just retrieve it. That doesn’t really prove a character’s independent existence…
Wow I’m exhausted! I’ll remember to check my e-mails next time BEFORE chores! ^^;
As a note: If you don’t want to come off with an offensive tone, don’t make remarks like:
“the idea that what your getting could be complete crap or something useful applies for almost everything”. It creates a hostile air that isn’t appreciated ^^;
This is certainly an informative chat! I think it will be a memorable and important one for people to come and consider the points presented here :3
It’s good you’ve got an inquisitive nature! At least you shouldn’t turn out to be a drone.
Challenge precepts forever! Rattle the dogma of society! ^^ That’s the path to discovery :3
Good night!
~Tal
I guess ill use a lighter word next time, like rubbish; depends on how you take the sentence though. I understand what your saying. Basically what I believe is, it comes down to perception and belief most of the time in this case. But there’s an argument for everything. It just depends on what argument you find most suitable. LIke you said, it comes down to Faith, but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna stop questioning the validity of things lol.