Character Assisted Lucid Dreaming...CALD part VI

Quest for Lucidity
21

Once again, I got very close to having a character dream. This time I remembered how to visualise, but lost lucidity when I couldn’t change scene. I’m off to bed in just over half an hour, so I will be trying CALD then.

Just one thing to note - I am not actually myself when it comes to daydreams; I picture myself 10 years older when I daydream about my characters. I have an alter ego so things will be quite interesting.

Hopefully this will work, and I might be able to see Shadow, Blaze and my other characters!

EDIT: Last night (29/1/10) I had a lucid dream - a decent one in weeks! I wasted most of my time trying something in a dream that I never succeeded in doing. However, I was close to summoning one of my female characters. Although I didn’t have a character related dream, I got extremely close and managed to walk through objects with no trouble whatsoever. I just walked through them and ended up somewhere else.

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Wow, a lot ha happened since I last was here ^^ It’s great to see so much activity ^^

Colors:
I wish you all the luck in meeting your dream character C: Remember to think of some things to do once you see him, I often got stuck with what to do ( luckily enough usually it turned into an adventure).

Teraflare:
I’m glad to see your progress, it’s good you managed to walk through the objects, I often hear people get stuck, but perhaps because they’re trying walls and gets stuck in the darkness. How did you try to summon your character, how did you know you were close, if you don’t mind me asking? C:

Crooked&Wolvendeer: I promise that almost everyone here has had the same issue-- times when their character were hard to reach, times when we were too busy to interact. Y’know. Actually, I’m in a phase myself where I’m only really focussing on a few characters at a time-- When I started out with CALD a few years ago, it was pretty even attention… Exam time got me bogged down too.

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Yeah, it’s really weird for me when I walk through a wall in a dream. When I pass through, it looks like a video game glitch.

Oh, and about the character thing. I usually summon a person/character by visualising them in front of me, and then they appear in a flash (there’s literally a flash). Sometimes I might use alternatives such as opening a door expecting them to be there, but spawning them on the spot seems to be easier for me.
I knew I was close because there was a person there with some facial features that resembled one of my characters, but unfortunately did not manage to piece my whole character together.

I have a feeling tonight is going to be my lucky night. I’m trying the VILD technique and then I’m off to visit my characters in my dream! VILD mixed with CALD, anyway.

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Thanks for the encouragement. :smile: Hey, do you mind if I write a tutorial on this for the other LD community I’m on? I’m sure they’d be interested.

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Teraflare8866: Best of luck! I hope it went well, it’s been nearly a week. C: Hopefully you’ve had some exciting dreams in that time.

wolvendeer: Ah… I’d personally prefer it stayed here at LD4All, wolven. I worry that it can easily be misinterpreted and therefore quickly gain a bad reputation-- thus discouraging new-comers from approaching the tech or even just coming to tell about progress. Do you know what I mean?

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Fair enough. I’ve seen a bunch of people already come and go with that opinion.

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Alrighty then. I hope I haven’t disappointed you or offended in any way.

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No, not really. I have quite a few friends on the community interested in dream characters and how they can be used to assist with lucidity, so I figured this would be a good fit. I’ll just have to read through the various forums I’m on to see any accounts of interesting DC interaction that might help and then think something new up, perhaps with Crystal’s help. It should be fun. :smile:

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It’s annoying - each time I try the VILD mixed with CALD, I tend to get so tired after reading that I just fall asleep without attempting the technique. It’s a rare occurence when I have a DILD dream, but when I do, it’s extremely unstable and I wake up seconds later. I’ve tried stabilising techniques and I’ve even stayed calm, but the dream just fades.

Talon, I have a question - how do you summon your characters? Because my dream goes distorted when I try to do something interesting such as summoning or flying, and it’s incredibly difficult to bear with.

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wolvendeer: Coolness, I’m sorry things didn’t go quite as planned-- But if you ever want some help scrolling, I have a pretty good memory of what’s happened here C:

Teraflare: I usually summon my characters by setting my intention, then closing my eyes, sort of just willing them into place. It usually goes like this:

“Ok, I’m dreaming. Need to stabilize. More clarity, now.” Then the dreamworld becomes more clear.
“I want [character name here] to be here when I open my eyes.” I stare at the empty spot for a bit, willing the character into place, and imagining what they would be like if they were there, I then close my eyes.

When I open my eyes, they’re there.
If this doesn’t work, I might try transforming a nearby object(perhaps even better, a nearby dream character if the occasion allows) into the character, as I have done once.
I did that by staring intensely at the DC and willing it to change (which i didn’t feel bad about because it was a DC version of a friend of mine so I knew it wasn’t her), and pulling it apart with my hands because I wanted to summon two characters. The two halves became the characters I was summoning.

Your priority should be, however, to stabilize the dream. I do so by projecting my intention that “this dream WILL continue,” followed by a command, such as “Greater clarity” or “stabilize now.”

I hope that helps some ^^;

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Meh, don’t worry about it. At the moment I’m on the 6th or 7th page of part 3 of this topic. Reading through it again has given me so many more insights and I think that taking the time to investigate this from the ground up with my characters (specifically my original three) will help us out in the long run. I’ve already begun an investigation thread at my other forum, starting with tearing apart the weaknesses of the old “find a random DC and tell them to make you lucid next time you’re dreaming” technique (LILD, I think?).

Allow me to lend you a bit of advice, though. You should stop worrying so much about stepping on people’s toes. If they can’t understand the beautiful piece of technique you’ve given the community then it’s their loss, and if they bother you about it I’ll stuff them in a gym locker somewhere for you. :wink: Seriously, I’ve been with this technique longer than anyone else [still] here besides yourself, and I’ve been doing this type of thing for most of my life. In fact, I think most authors do this in one form or another. It’s completely normal, and there is no reason to be afraid of what other people think of your technique. :smile: :smile:

Note that last part had nothing to do with my request, but rather to do with me reading through the topics again, especially the part where you were ready to drop the topic completely because of something LDPhone (I believe it was) said. We dreamers are an open bunch, and we’ll support you. You don’t have to back yourself into a corner trying to explain things to people that want to call foul about. Offer a gentle explanation of the limits of existence of your characters, then move on and let us take what we will. Trying to over explain it away will only lead to more people thinking there is something wrong with it. My explanation to anyone who asks is something like this: your mind can generate and maintain DC while you’re asleep, so why not while you’re awake? Sure due to the preoccupation of the mind with other things they’ll be less detailed in a perceptual sense, but they are no less [or more] real than they are when you’re asleep.

I hope I’m not coming off as being hard or anything like that; I’m just trying to help you out with something I’ve noticed you doing over the course of the thread (since May 2007). [I’m trying to be helpful.] :grin:

All the Best,
Wolvendeer

PS - In part three I wrote about a massive falling out with one of my characters. We’ve since come to an understanding and are on good terms again. In fact, he’s helped me out greatly since then with a few IRL issues I was having. :content:

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Here’s a quick question for you: I’ve noticed a recurring character in my dreams. I already consider him a candidate for a dream guide (next LD I have where I remember him :wink: ), but I’ve been reading over these posts and a thought occurred to me. He would be perfect for trying the CALD technique on because of the number of NDs where I have interacted with him.

There’s only one downside. He’s a character from a TV show (The Doctor, from Doctor Who to be precise). I’m wondering if the fact that I wouldn’t be the one to build him from the ground up would be a problem? Moreover, I’m wondering if it’s a good idea to give a TV character their own existence in my mind.

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Don’t worry about it rhewin, that’s still perfectly fine. In fact, my first character was Kiba, from Naruto, and my second was Gaara. Give him a chance and he’ll become his own person and I’m sure he’ll be just as helpful as any other character. :wink:

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wolvendeer: Thanks for the kind words, they certainly are encouraging-- Also: That conflict with that other member was very embarrassing, but it would have been dishonest erasing it ^^; I appreciate the support. We’ll have to work on this, yes?

rhewin: wolvendeer’s completely right, it’s no issue to have the character come out of a show, as long as you develop him into something you can personally connect with, the technique will still be fine. The most important thing for LDing with characters (generally) is just to have a good idea of how you’ll pursue lucidity after attaining said character i.e. pre-sleep lucidity talks, or consitant reality checks w/ characters as memory assistants C: . Have fun and remember we’ll always be happy to hear updates ^^

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Thanks for the quick feedback, I really appreciate it. I did have a couple more questions, though. I’m sorry if this was asked before, but I got lost at about page 5 of part 2 of this massive thread :nuu: .

When you first began with your characters, were you simply having imaginary and/or in-dream conversations with them? Or did you just daydream with them as characters until they were “sentient?”

One last thing, and this might sound a tad weird, but is there anything you would specifically advise against doing when trying to make a character independent?

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Hmm, I’m not exactly sure in which way you mean, so I’ll just give you a brief overview of my first months with Crystal. :smile:

Lets see, in the beginning I kinda ‘saw’ myself swordfighting in a dead forest with a white wolf girl. I didn’t pay attention to it, but I saw it a few more times until I decided to use her for CALD. Crystal, as you’ll see, was independent from the get go. Actually, all of my characters were, and most of them were spontaneously generated. You might have seen my account of my character that took form as Gaara in the part 2 thread.

Now, when I was busy, I would just have a conversation in my mind with her, like you might imagine a telepathic conversation to be like. If I was bored someplace like a dinner meeting or something, I would zone out and sort of meditate my way into the forest with my eyes open so that we could talk ‘face to face’. If I was alone, I would usually do a full meditation into the forest and talk with her that way.

Since I’ve never had to ‘make’ a character independent I can’t answer your last question, but hopefully I’ve managed to answer your first one. I don’t know. @_@

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Well, I think that answers part of it anyway. Sorry, my mind works in strangely complicated ways >_< . I’m just trying to figure out the best way to make them independent. I suppose starting by talking to them in a lucid dream might be best for me, because anytime I daydream it all seems scripted out.

That’s the part I was mostly wondering about. Am I right in thinking you’ve met your independent characters in dreams, and were able to pull them into wl? (that’s the last question, promise :wink: )

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Not at all, Kiba is the only character that’s come from a dream. All of the characters I have though have come into existence in one way or another independently from me. Crystal appeared in daydreams before I created her ‘body’, Foxy walked up to me while I was creating a dreamscape for the Paradiso program, and Silence (Gaara) just appeared and started barking orders at Kiba. So, that might have something to do with my characters’ independence, but it isn’t just because the characters come from dreams that makes them independent. I think it is more based on the minds of each person how long a character takes to gain independence.

Keep the questions coming, the better you understand everything the less you have to reinvent!

(I’m also interested in hearing Talon’s response to this, seeing as how she doesn’t have automatically independent characters like I do.)

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wolvendeer: Wow, you’re fast! :stuck_out_tongue: It’s good to see dedication and makes me feel nostalgic when I hear your familiar story ^^

rhewin:
Hey! C: I know the size of this thread can be disorienting, that’s why we encourage asking! ^^ wolvendeer was quite correct about the questions C:.

When I began with my characters, it was daytime conversation after fleshing out their basic beings. After a while, I started roleplaying with my friend, and their personalities fleshed out a bit more. Basically after that, I always saw them in new situations, and their personalities were more tangible-- I then started discussions before bed, and for fun, doing character questionnaires. The most important bit to getting a character sentient for me was to treat them as real people would be… as best as possible, at least ^^; We all know there are physical-nonphysical issues here.
The creator of Bleach (Tite Kubo? I’d have to check the interview again…) has a similar approach in that he treats his character as real people, and gets the detailed chars he has from them. The difference here is that we’re trying to cultivate a sense of sentient understanding in the character, as in Deadpool (who is wickedly awesome and frequently breaks the 4th wall).

Things I specifically advise against? Creating a bad character power dynamic.
What I mean by this is not to ‘glorify’ your character never be the passive individual when dealing with a more aggressive/conceptually dangerous character.

It hasn’t come up yet, but I would advise never to forget that you shouldn’t create a relationship between you and your character that could be harmful (ex. Developing a malevolent character with no intent on assisting and spending precious WL hours with said character).
Otherwise, don’t be tense about your environment or people. Just relax and try to get into a moment with your character without thinking of anything else.

I find that writing down your dialogue (without thinking) with your character is helpful, as you don’t have time to process what you’re about to say, and the scripted feeling disappears over time. I hope that helps some.

Many people have met characters in dreams that they choose to use for CALD, the difficulty is in how to do so.
Some people choose to take the character’s concept into WL and develop it there, where you’d follow standard WL development (dialogues, sometimes character quizzes, and mostly keeping said character in mind and interacting until their personality is tangible). This is personally a technique I’d follow, I’ve had success before in developing a DC by using the fast written dialogue mentioned above to sort of ‘get the character out’ of my memory of my dream.

Oh sorry-- Word wall ^^; I hope it was helpful to you, though. Please ask if you need clarification on anything!

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:content:

Yes, like the one character I spoke of way earlier. Silence thought he could control me and have me as a puppet, so I had to put him in his place. Allowing a character to get too big for their britches is something that shouldn’t be done. If they try to twist your arm, assert your power over them. :truit: