Character Assisted Lucid Dreaming...CALD part VI

Quest for Lucidity
41

An ideal of CALD from Tal

[ Quick summary of below text wall:
-I list off concepts* that CALD was based on
-I briefly discuss the progress of one of my main characters
-I state personal goal for what CALD will become

  • Concepts are mostly: non-physical beings, validity of such beings, the concepts of soul/emotion ]

General CALD note:
I’ve been thinking for a long time about what I’ve wanted CALD to eventually become. The core ideas that I’ve tried to touch on in CALD are further exploration and interaction with non-physical beings, and the validity of created beings.

We are born into this world fortunate enough to have bodies, if characters are created entirely within the minds of their creators, is their existence valid? Why?

What is emotion? Soul? Would it be possible to create a being that possessed either in their own right?

And if the soul cannot be created by man:
Is it possible to have more than one soul in a body? Could it be the life’s challenge of that non-physical being to be born into the mind of another?

I’ve wondered these things while I’ve watched the emotional/mental development of one of my characters over the last 2 years. I’ve watched him grow into understanding of his burden in life, wonder if his own existence was entirely valid, if there would ever be a total freedom of mind from me, and if there was a God. If he was God-made and God-loved. He prays for the blessing of God’s acceptance sometimes.

Our story is of Pinocchio and his Geppetto, but we have no body for him, we have no magic.

What I would love CALD to eventually be is an exploration of the concept of non-physical beings: if such beings can be created with sentience within the scope of our perception and whether or not those beings are valid.

I would want this technique to transcend the boundaries of character development we have now, and be something that helps us to question who/what we are, what defines a soul and emotions!

I would want this tech to provoke thought about how seemingly intangible concepts can be accepted and beneficial.
And for those for whom this could apply (I certainly would like to be one): I’d like this to be an exploration of spirituality and tapping into another facet of non-physical existence.

Woof. I’m pooped out ^^; it feels good to type all that out! I hope we can have some discussion on these, I do so love these concepts and thoughts.
It’s hard to think I started this journey at 13-- and now here I am almost 17! Wow.

~ Wishing happy lucids to all.
Tal

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Talon and Wolvendeer, thanks so much for taking the time to thoughtfully answer my questions. I think I have a good understanding now of what I need to do if I’m going to ever make The Doctor more than just a puppet.

And extra thanks to you Talon. I kind of feel good about how this will work out for me. I’ve done a lot of the things you’ve recommended already, but I’ve simply done it in the 3rd person. I guess it’s time to get myself involved.

Thanks again, and I’ll be sure to let you guys know if anything comes from it.

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so wait, these characters are created in your LDs? do you literally sculpt them like clay and then teach them to live as an individual?

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:yaaawn: One final answer before bedtime. I’ll have to get to Talon’s post tomorrow. It made me-> T_T :smile:

The characters are either taken from characters we see in our dreams or they are created consciously, much like you would create a character that you were going to use in an RP or a story. I think that part you can read the CALD Tutorial in the KB to clarify this with if I’m not providing a really clear answer. As to how we get them to become an individual, I believe for those whose characters aren’t already independent on creation, they will talk to the character for a while, listening fo a response but not providing one if they don’t get one, and try to hear a response back. It will take a while for the characters in these cases to speak, but they will do so on their own time. In cases such as mine, the characters will often pop out fully sentient, and may often surprise you in doing so. Like I said earlier, one of my characters spontaneously appeared and started barking orders at another of my characters! :lol:

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I’ve been gone for a day, and this thread has grown loads.

It’s as if my subconscious doesn’t want to me to lucid dream - I still haven’t had a decent lucid dream in months (I’ve had some so-so ones fairly recently), maybe because I didn’t properly get to grips with stabilising a dream. But Talon covered stabilisation in an earlier post - which I thank him for, and will remember to do so during my next lucid. Also, falling asleep too early while trying the technique annoys me as well, because I forget to reality check or my character doesn’t appear.

Last night I was daydreaming an ‘episode’ (that’s what I call them) with my characters - I’m at a really exciting part. However, it’s too exciting I forget to ask them to make me lucid - because I fall asleep too early like mentioned earlier in this post. My ‘episodes’ usually join to make a gigantic story, with one continuing from where I last left off. Hopefully I will continue from where I last left off in a LD, and will enjoy every second of it when it comes.

I’ve just had a thought - I could try VILD, and make up a scenario with my characters, asking me to do a reality check (which makes me lucid) - and when I transition over to the dream my character(s) will be there, and there’s no need to summon them. I’d never thought of this at the time when I was combining the methods. Does anyone think this could work?

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Absolutely. I’ve never personally had success with it (well, with VILD at all), but I’m sure anyone who is good at incubation would be able to pull it off nicely. Al a matter of finding what works for you. (Also, thank her, not him.)

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thanks for the reply. ive looked at the tutorial and i must try it now so in some way in WL i can feel im making progress. plus im good at drawing so ill use that to bring my character to life as well as other things. as for seeing them in dreams, how does this usually start to happen?

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Well, for me it happened quite by accident. One day I had a dream I was laying in bed and had a dream “Foxy” was 6" tall and standing on my hands, complaining about being hungry. :lol: For a number of people here it has been as simple as asking them to come visit you in your dreams, but I think there’s some connection or something that I’m missing to be able to do that. :meh: So, not really the most helpful answer, but I must further investigate.

EDIT - Oh, and PS, you might get a better idea of this by reading parts 1 & 2 of this thread series. There is a lot of reports by people just starting off there.

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Okay, I’ll thank ‘her.’ How did I not notice that? :confused:
So yeah, I’ll be trying the method tonight and will hope to succeed. I’ll report what happens tomorrow :smile:

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rhewin: No problem, and I hope you gain lots from your engagement with CALD, I’m glad you came around to ask those questions because it clarify things for others C: I’m looking forward to your reply! Best of luck and have fun!

Mourningstarr: Generally the characters are almost always made consciously during WL, and sometimes we take characters from dreams and develop them whilst awake. I like your clay analogy (is that the proper use of that word?) and it is somewhat how it works.
For me character development was a long and engaging progress with my friend while we consistently roleplayed every day. In my times away from her, I’d engage in character development activities as mentioned above C: . I have a few links in my signature that lead to various CALD tools that could be helpful C: . I think a few pages back we thoroughly discussed how to encounter a character in dreams. A quick summary with follow below, but I encourage you to go back and read for more detail C: :

  • Characters may be summoned through setting intent and closing/opening one’s eyes
  • Nearby objects/ DCs may be transformed into the character
  • Characters may be found after commanding the dream to do so
  • Doing through doors/ other passageways and expecting the character to be there

wolvendeer: I have never been able to tell what the T_T emoticon was ^^; I am stuck between interpreting it as an expression of seriousness/annoyance or tears! I’ll take it as a compliment though, cause of the smiley :slight_smile: Looking forward to what you have to say.

Teraflare8866: Personally I think it’d be a great idea. If you have successfully VILDed before, I’m sure it could work. Also, when meeting characters take note of any uncharacteristic behavior-- when I met my characters in dreams, they were always quite a bit different than I perceive them in WL! Good luck! I hope you get great results C:

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CALD has always been very interesting to me, but I’ve never really found time to make a character. I recently dreamt about this girl who seemed important, but I didn’t know what to do about it. Then I remembered this thread :content:

When I started creating her, I felt like I already knew everything about her, except her name. So I started up my first conversation. She refused to tell me why she was in my dream, but she told me her name was Jane. It felt very natural.

I’m going to try and use her to induce a LD tonight. :grin:

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That’s great to hear C: I’m glad you were able to get Jane out of your dream, best of luck in lucidity induction! I’d personally love to hear how it goes C:

~ Happy lucidity!
Tal

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Hey, it’s only been two days but I already have an update :happy:. Last night, as I was falling asleep, I was “talking” to The Doctor in my head (and visualizing it some as well. The closer I am to falling asleep, the more I can see). Well, most of it seemed normal, i.e. I knew what The Doctor would say before he said it and had influence over him. But then, as I got closer to sleep, some things surprised me.

I tried to do a Q&A with him, most of it going just like I was expecting it to. But then I asked him one very deep question. A quick background for those who don’t know, btw, The Doctor is an alien and when he dies, all of his cells regenerate and he turns into a new man with a new personality. The only thing similar is his memories and general sense of right and wrong. Again, my Doctor is The Second Doctor who was forced to regenerate prematurely by his own people. Knowing that, here’s what I asked him.

Me: “So, who wants you to be independent more, me or you?” I was expecting him to say “you, because for now I’m still a part of you.”
The Doctor: “You… no, I do.”
Me: “What?” At this point I could visualize him very clearly
The Doctor: “You know that I actually regenerated a long time ago, but there is still a lot I could do. I’m sure my future regenerations have done a wonderful job at it, but there was so much more for me. The chance to live again, to do good again…”
Me: “I understand… I think. You know your Tenth incarnation will say something similar when he dies?” again, The Doctor answers unexpectedly
The Doctor: “Please don’t tell me. Knowing one’s future… it just makes things a bit pointless, doesn’t it?”

And if that wasn’t enough, later as I was doing a MILD attempt, I began visualizing a dream. In my little visualization, there was a war going on. Out of nowhere, The Doctor grabbed my wrist and said “what are you doing here? It’s dangerous!” He then pulled me to a safe location, and I snapped myself out of my daydream. I was a little shaken that he just… appeared without me thinking of it.

Anywho, I know he’s still a ways from sentience, but I definitely think he and I have already covered some good ground.

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Wow, rhewin. That’s fantastic!! :happy:

I remember a couple times I asked my SC (since I don’t have characters :tongue: ) some questions right when falling asleep and also got some really unexpected answers!

I wonder if one could learn to reach this state and then simply focus on the conversation as the dream formed and enter a LD! :confused:

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Just to report - I didn’t transition into the dream through VILD but the CALD technique managed to get me a lucid dream! My character appeared, and then he told me I was dreaming!
It’s interesting that you said about uncharacteristic behaviour - later I realised it wasn’t my characters but they took form of someone I knew. It was a pretty exciting dream, might talk about it later. I got so close to visiting my made up futuristic city of Utopia (set in my imaginary world Eternos, currently in the year 3020). Might explain a little more later.
I’m happy that I got CALD to work for me! Let’s just hope the success continues. I will attempt again tonight, and hope to continue my dream from where I last left off (I can get there).

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thank you Talon for the response, ill read back abit. (analogy is right) thx. one last thing tho, how do you roleplay with the characters, like how do yo manuver them through your world, do you also draw a map of the place?

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Quite an interesting topic, and one I’ve been interested in exploring since I ran across the CALD thread.

I believe that it is. What makes their existence any less valid just because they are encapsulated within our minds, even if they are [as the most skeptical people would say] nothing more than a personification of parts of our SC. In a world dominated by perception, a being that can’t be seen or heard tends to be pushed off as foolish fantasy, but I don’t think it’s right. :meh:

Quite an impossible question, but I certainly hope so.

Again, I certainly hope so.

A story that brings tears to my eyes. T_T (That’s what that smiley means, by the way.) I’ve never had that experiencee because I’ve always treated my characters like they were real people, even when I knew they would never be physical, but I can sympathize.

As always, I’m here with you to explore any area or possibility brought about by this. This concept has interested me since I’ve first seen it, kept me here on LD4all, and I’m always willing to explore whatever is there to be explored within its realms.

I look forward to the discussion that this may bring. Perhaps one day this could merit a chatroom or something set up for some realtime discussion on the matter. I hear TinyChat has good weather this time of year. :razz: :smile:

I know the feeling. I’m glad you’ve managed to find this technique and apply it to her. :smile:

Very nice! I’ve never gotten lucid off CALD, though I’ve had them appear in my dreams multiple times over the years.

[mod]Edited into previous post.[/mod]

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Wow wow wow. That’s a lot. This thread is growing at break-neck pace! It’s so encouraging! C:

Rhewin: Thank you for updating! I have to say that was one of the most exciting things I’ve read in a bit, and certainly raised my spirits reading it C: Fantastic progress, and in the beginning, steps like these are most thrilling, no? Keep up the great work, and be sure to enjoy the process because that’s the best part C: I love unexpected behavior-- it’s that spontaneity that makes things interesting.

mattias: I think focus on the conversation may allow the mind slip away into this state and wouldn’t help to facilitate a WILD, though if the discussion were aimed at achieving a WILD, it certainly could work. In my attempts of talking my way into a dream ( when I was younger), I always got distracted and fell asleep ^^; However, someone of stronger resolve I’m sure could do it-- In fact, in the early stages of CALD, I suggested that it would be a more engaging way to stay aware rather than going through mantras or visualizations-- Yes C:

Teraflare8866: Great job with your LD! ^^ Congrats. Your results in combination with Rhewin’s were great to hear and made my night! Thanks so much for coming back to update. I wish you all the luck with another LD soon :wink: Don’t forget you can do a quest to earn your wings C: I know I want to. This month’s quest is 'Be Your Own Guardian Angel", and it’s quite interesting C: Best of luck!

Mourningstarr: When I am with my friend, we have two levels of roleplay.

Mindroleplaying is just allowing the raw characters interact ( as the characters do in the character chat in my signature).
Storyline roleplay, where we design a plot or concept and place the characters (usually somewhat altered in history or mindset to suit the new occasion) into the new conditions.

In my own world, the characters move freely move about, and I just observe their actions. How I got them to do so was to imagine (given their mindsets and situation) what they’d do. After a while, this became natural and automatic, and all I had to do was observe. I think autonomy is achieved when there is no effort on my part is given.
I do draw maps but I do not need them to observe movement.

Wolvendeer: Thanks for all the encouraging words-- I appreciate that was share similar views in some respects, and I appreciate the support. I look forward to more discussions on these topics with you, seeing as you are my senior and probably have interesting insights on the matter.

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Thanks :smile: I do hope to have another LD soon, but didn’t have one last night because I felt very ill and was too much in pain to try the technique (I’ve got the sickness bug :sad:). I’m feeling a little bit better now, and should be well enough to try CALD mixed with VILD.

Just to say I have a lot of time on my hands, so I’ll report the CALD I had on Friday morning. I’ll type it up here since I forgot to do so in my offline DJ.

Dream #54 - Utopia Is Near
11th Feb - 12 Feb

This dream first began at my school. I began talking to my friend about his birthday, and he said it is a few months away and he will be having a party. I felt happy and asked him what he wanted for his birthday. He said he wanted an Xbox360 (like he told me in Waking Life). After a bit of a chat I walked onto the back field at my school to find a huge pool of water with women sitting in it. It was a luxourious body of water, and the tiling looked very expensive around the edges of the pool. The fairies (apparently they were) began talking to me about an ancient city, and one of the fairies would have to assist me to the city. One of the fairies (can’t remember her name, but she was a fairy alright) stepped out of the pool and directed me to a huge mansion. Suddenly, a person I knew appeared and made me lucid. At the time I thought this was one of my characters, but it turns out it wasn’t.

In the mansion was these people, and they wanted to teach me how to use a sword. I summoned a two-handed sword, and they summoned a creature at random. It turned out to be a huge bird that was roughly ten foot in size, and it began floating. I ran to slice the monster, but it disappeared and when I ran back it appeared again. After a few attempts it got tedious so I decided to lay it off and talk to some of my friends. He wanted to listen to some of my music, but when I told him he was distracting me from my LD, he began crying and then curled up in a ball. I left him alone and walked into the next room, which looked a lot like my kitchen. I was walking around; thanking Talon for the CALD method, and then a woman came up to me and asked me a question. I had never seen the person in my life before, but she looked roughly 30 years old. She told me about this futuristic city. I suddenly realised it was Utopia (which is my mind futuristic city) she was talking about, and she wanted to help me into getting to the city. The woman gave me a tombstone key, and she told me to use it on the crypt in the fairy garden.

I was puzzled. I didn’t know the fairy garden extended any further, and then she gave me a map, and it said the crypt I had to open was at the ‘Cape of Good Hope,’ in the huge field. I thanked her and began to set off for the fairy garden.
Back at the garden there were no fairies left - they had disappeared. I walked across the Cape of Good Hope but couldn’t find the crypt I was supposed to open. I walked right to the edge of the Cape to find that there was a metal fence protecting a huge wasteland. Around me were all these ancient gravestone that looked like they came from an ancient era. Suddenly I started to hear this extremely eerie music and felt a presence around me. I caught glimpse of a shadow stalking me. At the time I felt scared, but I knew I wouldn’t wake up - I had to reach Utopia.

After a bit of walking around I found the crypt. I inserted the tombstone key into the lock and then a huge hole in the ground appeared. I began falling down the hole, but reminded myself it was a dream, and then I floated back up. Before I went down the hole I had to prepare, anything could be down that hole. All I knew was that Utopia was down that hole, and after a few passages I would arrive in the futuristic city where my characters were (I like a good adventure, I didn’t think of summoning or teleporting). I prepared a little, but woke up before I went down the crypt.

It was a brilliant dream, and the next time I have a LD I know where to continue from. I’ll VILD so I can hop next to where I left off.

I’ll check out that Guardian Angel quest sooner or later. It does seem quite interesting.
Thanks again for the CALD technique!

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Teraflare: Did you just thank me for the CALD technique? Haha, I should be thanking you for using and reporting it! It’s great that you had a good CALD C: Why don’t you pop over to the CALD dream journal in my sig and post it? That way, lots of other people will quickly be able to see your dream! C: