This is what I was wondering, and have given much thought.
I don’t know much of biological science and what conception man has of how the mind operates, if any, but I think it’s theoretically possible to open the subconcious to the concious mind, so the two would become one.
Think of what calculating power and creativity such a leap in science would bring. It might even be the end to problems as we know it! All I want to know is everyone’s two cents about the issue, do you think it’s possible, why and why not, if we can, should we?
It certainly is amazing what you could do, but I doubt that it is possible. The link between the two simply isn’t developed enough to allow for that degree of interaction. I don’t exactly know how the mind works, but I’d be guessing the power of the subconscious mind isn’t accessable for us to use in ways other than what we currently use it for.
Using the full power of your imagination, you could essentially lucid dream on command, while awake. Though it would probably be safer to do it when you don’t have control of your body.
You integrate both while u do meditation…it depends on your talent and on the neural structure limits of the brain (how young u start to)how far u can go on this path of integration…But total integration sounds a bit ideal…
Perhaps by learing to LD we are slowing becoming aware of how to do that. With changing the dreaming environment which would normally be done by the sub conscious.
Compared to meditation slowly…because the control comes from a active consciousness in a ld (it also drifts towards awaking)and in meditation your consciousness makes room by being passive for your subconsciousness and instead of moving towards waking your here staying at a level and in time going even deeper inside your subconsciousness (depends on your talent and dedication)…
So there is a big difference…
I posted this in another thread (slagt.net/ld4all/viewtopic.php?t=1511 ) where people made the comment that to see subconsciousness as separate from ourself is an incorrect view:
"I definitely agree with all of you saying the subconscious is not separate from “us”. It’s like all concepts, to make reality comprehensable we use language and concepts to “organize” this reality with our left brain, and because we are generally “left brain oriented” in the west we give too much reality to the concepts and forget that those concepts focus on a reality that is not the same as the conceptual picture we have of it. So language, which is an extremely valuable tool, becomes a source of separation. There is “consciousness”, the little “top of the mountain” we identify with and there is “subconsciousness” or “unconsciousness”, the huge (limitless?) bottom of the mountain we see as separate from our “self”. If you understand the way we trick ourselves with those words you also understand why for example some zen masters say seemingly crazy things like “consciousness is an illusion”.
Easy said but what to do about it? I agree with Jeff in the thread running about this topic when he says that it will be easier to bridge this illusionary gap by meditation than by LDs because when we LD the part that identifies the self with thinking and controlling (the ego) wants to rule everything just like we do in waking life. But when we do meditation the way it should be done then slowly there will be more space for the “subconscious”. You really have to “surrender” but ego never wants to surrender so that’s why this is so difficult. Paying attention, concentrate on the moment (without forcing too much), watching the breath will bring you closer. Ego will look for crazy methods that would speeden up the process and will attempt to confuse strange states of consciousness with the real thing but only if you find the guts and patience to meditate regularly (regular schedule extremely important!) there can be surrender…
Nothing stops you from trying meditation IN a lucid dream but I don’t think it is possible for most people to do this regularly. Tibetan dream yoga uses LDing as part of spiritual practice but they also stress the crucial importance of daily meditation in waking life. LDs are nice because there you can see how much “bigger” your mind - you - is than you think it is. But if you only focus on LDs there is too much danger that you will be distracted by all the bliss, special effects and feeling of power and maybe you think you are becoming more “whole” while you are actually learning to fool yourself. And when you wake up from those LDs you still have to wake up in waking life where you don’t have much control and where everything seems separate from you.
There is no shortcut. You have to practice for months to see some initial results, but it can take MANY years to really understand that you are more than the little I you identify with (not just intellectual understanding). I’m not there yet. The people I know who have some understanding after decades (!) of meditation, all stress the importance of daily practice and the abundance of pitfalls that can be encountered during practice. One of them told me about LDs that those are “just like waking life”. He didn’t tell me the reverse, he didn’t tell that life is just a dream and that we should strive to reach “higher” states of consciousness. He said: dreams are just like waking life. He also told me that he gave up on LDing many years ago but that ironically the majority of his dreams are lucid now… I don’t think that’s strange if you practice zazen (zen buddhist meditation exercise) for 20 years, Lucid Living is the most effective LD-technique in the long term…"
yes i do believe it’s possible.
we could not survive if both parts didnot interect to some degree, now what we do know is we only use between 7 & 10% of our brains.
Theorectically it is possible but may require us to learn how to use all of our brain, there is no telling what the dormant part of our brain does or is capable of. So theoretically i would say yes, whether we are capable of it right now in our evolution is really a matter of “try it and see”
i think it is possible. because if people are able to tap into their human potiental which is connected to subconscience in ways then they can. Different people are able to tap into different levels of it. so it is possible to fully awaken ur human potential and subconscience mind, but it would take so much dedication and practice that it hasn’t been done yet. Great people can unlock sum of their potiential. Like this guy in India can materialize objects out of thin air, Other cases there are people that can control their bodies and make themselves impervious to things such as fire and lets not forget all the psychics and PK we have. So it is possible only it would require so much that ud prolly become to spiritual and powerful that ur human form couldnt handle it or ud be too much ‘Above’ your current earthly state and u might die and go on to lik the spiritual realm(wutever u wanna call it)
Well has this thread been revivied or has it been revivied?
I’d like to hear more about this mysterious Indian…
I think he is probably referring to Sathya Sai Baba. You can find loads of info about him on the net. I would be very sceptical of his “powers” though. He has lot’s of followers who swear by his “miracles”, but under close observation it would seem a lot of his materializations are simple conjuring tricks. I think his followers see what they wish to see, just as some people claim to see the virgin Mary floating around, and some muslims see blood coming from statues and statues drinking milk etc. And Sai Baba does his best to accommadate these peoples desires to be led. A lot of the stuff he materializes is tacky self promoting rings with his picture on, and he miraculously discovers statues buried at certain points in sand etc. Hmm, now he or one of his buddies couldn’t have planted the stuff there earlier now, eh? Load of hogwash, if you ask me.
Though I don’t discount the fact that some Indian fakirs actually do have amazing control over their minds and bodies. I just think Sai baba is a bit much.
If you like to read some critical information about Sai Baba:
I especially love this page about Sai Baba “caught faking on video”:
Yes brainhacker it was all in the newspapers to last summer, that Sai Baba is a fraud!
I wouldn’t dare not want conscious/subconscious be the same besides you have to be jesus christ (I’m not joking) and to think right at every moment imagine if you thought wrongly would have major consequences! The only way you can get close to conscious/subconsious is through lucid dreaming/obe that is high theta/low alpha waves. What I notice in lucid dreaming you think of something say healing its 100 times more sensitive to that thought. So imagine when you obe (out of body experience) you see spirits and start getting afraid your afraid thing is amplified 100 times more because you didn’t think right and was cool calm. Its very dangerous I think, I think God has his reasons he made us like this and only access our subconscious while asleep only
That’s if there is a God who intended this whole thing to be able to happen…
Just a thought BTW, don’t get jumpy
But I am a kangaroo and i whant to jump…jump…jump lol!
Well one thing is at least true…its all i the light of being functional as we are! god or no god…
Well I don’t think that a deep connection between subconsciousness and consciousness would imply excessive matrix-like control coming from the thoughts - that would just mean ego replaces the subconsciousness, which would indeed be a frightening idea . It’s about being more aware of the “stuff below surface”, King Kong in the caves of the brain .
I think there is a simple enough reason for having a ‘hidden’ subconscious - if our conscious brains had to deal with all of the day to day business of simply existing, our heads would go POP! and make a mess all over the walls. It is ok during meditation and dreaming, but having to conciously deal with all of the raw sensory information coming in during waking life and sorting it all out into some kind of coherant picture is more than we could consciously cope with, I think.
Good point…i think the same about it!
The brain parts are all specialisms and have their own task!
A connection is there of course already…between the consciousness and subconsciousness but not a broadband as the ego wish for.
Well lots to say here but 4 now this is enough lol