Apparently we project ourselves every time we deep sleep and go into the astral plane; that’s called astral projection. Now when we are aware of that, then it becomes an experience and so an OBE. But anyway we use both as the same .
That’s just a theory, based on experience of people, not on actual fact 
. Once you start to delve deeper into the matter you will see that it’s not entirely that obvious 
. Some (like me) make the difference between OBE and AP as; OBE = out of body (like NDE), AP is focussing your consciousness on astral stuff (which does not require OBE).
[color=green]Hi Xetrov
Did i make this topic? lolll damn i dont remember. Ok, but so far, this is what i think of LD, AP and OBE
LD = Dream that you are in control of. That is all it is. A dream.
AP = Not a dream, but a person’s consciousness being projected onto the REAL planes of existance. So unlike LD, you cant really change the colour of the sky or a tree, but you can turn into a bird, cloud, air… etc anything if you want to.
*OBE = This is only limited to this earthly plane of existance. So you can think of seeing ur grandma who lives in sweden and you will be there. Weather she sees you or not is somthing im currently researching. You cant turn urself into a bird or nothing. You will see urself as you are. Some accounts say that they saw themselves covered in blood ( like after an accident ). Some say they were perfectly ok.
*OBE i havent done as much research in this as i have done in AP. The reason being is simply becoz i cant attain it unless im having a NDE. I know other memebers of this forum think of AP and OBE as being the same. [/color]
hmm, so you say that AP is a different existence for which is no “rare” event is needed?
so then my next question is: do you know of a possibility to induce an AP, if so can you tell me what it is/where to find it
You don’t necesarily need to have control of the dream in order to be LD. A ld is a dream in which you are basically aware of, you don’t have to be in control to be lucid.
It was split from another thread .
But I kind of agree on your ideas I guess, they seem more or less in the same direction as mine … if you’re interested I once wrote some lengthy article on that .
[color=green]Hi cranberryDude and Xetrov and Sirius
Sirius
Yes that is what i am saying. AP can be possible with meditation, technique and time. I cant say if any tom dick and harry can do it. But it can be done. Some people dream rarely. Some dream everyday. You cant expect a person for whome dream is rare that they start lucid dreaming. It simply wont happen.
CranberryDude
Yes you are right. My mistake. That is what i wanted to type but maybe i was thinking of something else when i wrote it.
LD = A dream in which you are AWARE you are dreaming.
Xetrov
I read your article. Very intersting indeed and i agree with you on it. In some cases that i have read, people are pronounced DEAD. So there is no (known) way that it can be a dream, LD or AP.
Also, when i say NDE i literally mean like a near death experiance. Where a car would hit me and im pronounced dead but then i come back to life. That is what i mean by NDE. OBE , as defined, is an outer body experiance. When everything you are is actually outside ur body. I see OBE and AP as literally 2 different things. OBE, in my opinion, can only occur when such a shock has been given to your body that your physical body completely shuts down and YET you are alive if you can understand what im trying to say.
I started to learn about AP to increase my religious knowledge. Astral projection was actually the phenomenon that i was more interested in. I studied AP more than LD or OBE. Just briefly becoz i dont want to go into it too much, but in Quran there is a story of the cave people. They took refuge in a cave and they spent 300 or so years in there in a state where if we saw them we would think that they are awake, but infact they were asleep.
I agree with you, a body cannot survive long without the bio-energitic-link. In case where a person had a NDE and he/she experianced an OBE, it wasnt for long. I havent read one case where a person experianced OBE for days. IT was literally matter of minutes. During which time the actual body was pronounced dead. But then it came back to life. This is OBE for me. OBE is not equal to AP. In AP, a person is alive. Its his conciouss that leave. Not its soul.[/color]
Jaxal im very sorry to bother you by correcting you again but i have to do it.
I think you were thinking of something else again because EVERYONE dream EVERYDAY(even on holidays) and there’s not such thing as someone dreaming rarely UNLESS he/she suffers from some brain tumor. Everyone dreams everyday, Now if he/she doesn’t remember the dream is another story.
[color=green]Hi CranberryDude[/color]
[color=green]Plz dont think like that 
. Bother me as much as u want. You have my permission 
And no, not every single person on this planet dreams regularly. My grandmother for instance, i asked her what she dreamt and she said she doesnt dream much. Not like once in a week or once in a month. But once in a year. Maybe 5 at most in a year. So there are people for whome dreaming is a very rare thing. [/color]
well, that may be becouse she can never REMEMBER her dreams, i had the same problem, but i started trying(when i got here:p) and i rememberd more and more dreams, so for me it’s(probably like your grandma) a fact that my DR is just extremely terrible
We all dream all the time, it is only a matter of remembering we are actually talking about here, so I agree with Sirius 
.
Yeah that’s what i meant, it’s just a matter of remembering, Excluding the ppl who suffer from some brain damage that doesn’t let them dream at all.
Well, i have read that OBE is the same as AP, but first one is older word for the same phenomena.
Whether you believe that you “really” where out of your body (or your dream body was), or that you astral projected (or that astral is related to your dreamscapes) depends how do you see the same phenomena what is labelled by two different names - OBE and AP.
[color=green]Hi Sirus and Xetrov
I once asked people in my university, about 500 student, if they dream a lot. This isnt like a scientific experemnt but a very few people ( about 10-20 ) said that for them, dream is a rare thing . I asked them if it is that they dont remember their dream. They said that they can know the difference if they had a dream and not remembering it and not dreaming at all.
Also , from my experiance I dream maybe 4 -5 times a week. Somedays i know i dream and i simply dont remember them. Somedays i KNOW i didnt dream becoz its literally i close my eys, go to sleep and what looks like 5 seconds have passed and im being woken up in the morning 7-8 hours later.
Im not so sure about what you are saying. Becoz i think there is a difference when you dont dream at all and when you know u had a dream but u simply dont remember it.[/color]
well, i have that too but it’s been enhancing ever since i started enhancing my DR, last night i got my record of remembering at least half the story of TWO dreams:D
i’m so happy:p
the first one is where i was insode my school, but it was different, i machine(like soda or candy machine) was added and the other 2 were changed, and 1 was a fries vending machine(?:P)
but i wasn’t looking for a fries vending machine, i was looking for a SODA vending machine, i wanted to hack one:p
and i had to do some quest inside my school, but it seemed in connection with the second dream tho i know it was not the same one, cos in the second dream, i(together with an IRL friend of mine(he was a DC tho) got picked picked up by his mother, but he didn’t come and i went looking for him, i found him and we left the school
oh, i may remember another one from that day, it was sone sort of a quest but half of it could only be done when you succeeded the first level:P i just failed that level:P
can’t remember much more
and can you tell me like a meditation or some site with how to do an AP? i’d love to try that once:P
[color=green]Hi sirus
This link is from the Lucid Crossroads. And it gives information on lucid dreaming and techniques . I personally havent tried it coz im scared of leaving my body. I keep thinking i will die. Until i can overcome this, im not going near it [/color]
Jaxal trust me on this, Ive done it many times and I feel quite alive 
. It’s not what it seems to be!
This is for you Jaxal with lot of respect;
https://www.psychwww.com/asc/dreamfaq/node32.html
The document is telling you about dreaming not necesary ocurring in REM but it could happen also that dreams could begin right in the beginning and they are telling that dreaming occurs in the forebrain too.
Although it doens’t relat to the topic but they tell you about everybody dreaming at the beginning of it; if that’s not enough info i can get more urls.
well, i’m not afraid of leaving my body, it seems like a great experience, that’s why i’m gonna try until i succeed:P i’ll try to do the reading AP in the afternoon, i’ll lie down on a mattras(?), read and keep reading the same page inside my head with closed eyes, it’s freaky, does your physical body go into SP then? cos it’d be strange to move with your physical body at the same time, they say you can reach the lucid crossroads in this way:D i wanna AP!!!