[color=green]Hi sirus
OBE are generally associated with NDE. Whereas AP are not 
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why are they then???
oh, right, you literaly step out of your body so you see yourself like dead or something?
[color=green]Hi sirus
From the research I have done on OBE, Yes people who claim to have OBE see themselves “dead” or whatever state they are in. But in AP, some people do and some people dont. [/color]
hmm, that’s strange, but i guess you’re right
no experience so i can’t be saying i think you’re wrong,
tho in(for example) lucid crossroads, i believe they say an AP(otherwise called an OBE) … guess they didn’t do the same recearch you did then:P cos obviously an OBE and an AP are completely different things, well, i did remember a little bit of my WBTB experience of this morning, it was only a few minutes and it was black all the time, but i heard music, clearly it was nice and calm music tho
[color=green]Hi sirus
Lolll you maybe right. I only speak from the research i have done. But i have never heard of anyone say "when i had a near death experiance, i astral projected!! " lolllllllllll. That is why i said that OBE is usually associated with NDE . But plz if you have an article which sujjests otherwise then plz let me know about it [/color]
well, i’m not saying they say that(strange sentance:S), i meant the lucid crossroads use the name AP instead of OBE
Apparently we project ourselves every time we deep sleep and go into the astral plane; that’s called astral projection. Now when we are aware of that, then it becomes an experience and so an OBE. But anyway we use both as the same .
That’s just a theory, based on experience of people, not on actual fact 
. Once you start to delve deeper into the matter you will see that it’s not entirely that obvious 
. Some (like me) make the difference between OBE and AP as; OBE = out of body (like NDE), AP is focussing your consciousness on astral stuff (which does not require OBE).
[color=green]Hi Xetrov
Did i make this topic? lolll damn i dont remember. Ok, but so far, this is what i think of LD, AP and OBE
LD = Dream that you are in control of. That is all it is. A dream.
AP = Not a dream, but a person’s consciousness being projected onto the REAL planes of existance. So unlike LD, you cant really change the colour of the sky or a tree, but you can turn into a bird, cloud, air… etc anything if you want to.
*OBE = This is only limited to this earthly plane of existance. So you can think of seeing ur grandma who lives in sweden and you will be there. Weather she sees you or not is somthing im currently researching. You cant turn urself into a bird or nothing. You will see urself as you are. Some accounts say that they saw themselves covered in blood ( like after an accident ). Some say they were perfectly ok.
*OBE i havent done as much research in this as i have done in AP. The reason being is simply becoz i cant attain it unless im having a NDE. I know other memebers of this forum think of AP and OBE as being the same. [/color]
hmm, so you say that AP is a different existence for which is no “rare” event is needed?
so then my next question is: do you know of a possibility to induce an AP, if so can you tell me what it is/where to find it
You don’t necesarily need to have control of the dream in order to be LD. A ld is a dream in which you are basically aware of, you don’t have to be in control to be lucid.
It was split from another thread .
But I kind of agree on your ideas I guess, they seem more or less in the same direction as mine … if you’re interested I once wrote some lengthy article on that .
[color=green]Hi cranberryDude and Xetrov and Sirius
Sirius
Yes that is what i am saying. AP can be possible with meditation, technique and time. I cant say if any tom dick and harry can do it. But it can be done. Some people dream rarely. Some dream everyday. You cant expect a person for whome dream is rare that they start lucid dreaming. It simply wont happen.
CranberryDude
Yes you are right. My mistake. That is what i wanted to type but maybe i was thinking of something else when i wrote it.
LD = A dream in which you are AWARE you are dreaming.
Xetrov
I read your article. Very intersting indeed and i agree with you on it. In some cases that i have read, people are pronounced DEAD. So there is no (known) way that it can be a dream, LD or AP.
Also, when i say NDE i literally mean like a near death experiance. Where a car would hit me and im pronounced dead but then i come back to life. That is what i mean by NDE. OBE , as defined, is an outer body experiance. When everything you are is actually outside ur body. I see OBE and AP as literally 2 different things. OBE, in my opinion, can only occur when such a shock has been given to your body that your physical body completely shuts down and YET you are alive if you can understand what im trying to say.
I started to learn about AP to increase my religious knowledge. Astral projection was actually the phenomenon that i was more interested in. I studied AP more than LD or OBE. Just briefly becoz i dont want to go into it too much, but in Quran there is a story of the cave people. They took refuge in a cave and they spent 300 or so years in there in a state where if we saw them we would think that they are awake, but infact they were asleep.
I agree with you, a body cannot survive long without the bio-energitic-link. In case where a person had a NDE and he/she experianced an OBE, it wasnt for long. I havent read one case where a person experianced OBE for days. IT was literally matter of minutes. During which time the actual body was pronounced dead. But then it came back to life. This is OBE for me. OBE is not equal to AP. In AP, a person is alive. Its his conciouss that leave. Not its soul.[/color]
Jaxal im very sorry to bother you by correcting you again but i have to do it.
I think you were thinking of something else again because EVERYONE dream EVERYDAY(even on holidays) and there’s not such thing as someone dreaming rarely UNLESS he/she suffers from some brain tumor. Everyone dreams everyday, Now if he/she doesn’t remember the dream is another story.
[color=green]Hi CranberryDude[/color]
[color=green]Plz dont think like that 
. Bother me as much as u want. You have my permission 
And no, not every single person on this planet dreams regularly. My grandmother for instance, i asked her what she dreamt and she said she doesnt dream much. Not like once in a week or once in a month. But once in a year. Maybe 5 at most in a year. So there are people for whome dreaming is a very rare thing. [/color]
well, that may be becouse she can never REMEMBER her dreams, i had the same problem, but i started trying(when i got here:p) and i rememberd more and more dreams, so for me it’s(probably like your grandma) a fact that my DR is just extremely terrible
We all dream all the time, it is only a matter of remembering we are actually talking about here, so I agree with Sirius .
Yeah that’s what i meant, it’s just a matter of remembering, Excluding the ppl who suffer from some brain damage that doesn’t let them dream at all.
Well, i have read that OBE is the same as AP, but first one is older word for the same phenomena.
Whether you believe that you “really” where out of your body (or your dream body was), or that you astral projected (or that astral is related to your dreamscapes) depends how do you see the same phenomena what is labelled by two different names - OBE and AP.
[color=green]Hi Sirus and Xetrov
I once asked people in my university, about 500 student, if they dream a lot. This isnt like a scientific experemnt but a very few people ( about 10-20 ) said that for them, dream is a rare thing . I asked them if it is that they dont remember their dream. They said that they can know the difference if they had a dream and not remembering it and not dreaming at all.
Also , from my experiance I dream maybe 4 -5 times a week. Somedays i know i dream and i simply dont remember them. Somedays i KNOW i didnt dream becoz its literally i close my eys, go to sleep and what looks like 5 seconds have passed and im being woken up in the morning 7-8 hours later.
Im not so sure about what you are saying. Becoz i think there is a difference when you dont dream at all and when you know u had a dream but u simply dont remember it.[/color]