This is about an experience I had in a ND, and I am asking a rather philosophical question. You may also find it a good story, so please be patient and read through.
In this dream, I was not me, but a genetic experiment (in fact I was a ‘mighty mutant’, although this had nothing to do with my forum name), although I still had my personality and character traits. I was a human altered for increased strength and stamina, and I’ll skip most of the dream, but me and my many brothers and sisters were inprisoned in this mountain castle, treated as subhuman (some of us did display some behavioural problems). Life was terrible (this was one of those long long dreams, that felt like years), and we were kept in this cold dingy dungeon, with rags for clothes, and covered in muck. I remember there was someone (possibly our creator) who had some sort of control over us, despite our great strength, and we feared him. One day, I had an idea. I had all of us push against this one wall, and with all twenty-thirty of us pushing, the huge stones gave out and there was a valley and the sky. We were free! We carefully made our way around the cliff at the bottom of the castle, and then in a neat formation, began the run down the meandering mountain track. I was slightly slower than the others, and along with a companion, I was lagging behind a bit, as the main formation headed into think woods to cut the corner on the bending road. Just as they disappeared in the foliage, a car came up round the bend. Inside it were two women, who were assistants to the big boss man that could control us.
They pulled up the car and came out, drawing sabres. I made a judgement and pushed my companion away towards the others in the woods. I knew that if I didn’t eliminate these women, they would alert the boss man, and my siblings would either be incarserated or killed (I thought death the more likely). I ran towards the women. One swung at me but I caught her hand, renched the sabre from her and ran her through. I then decapitated the other, and remember the horror of having killed them, but I had to move and carry on. I left them and ran down the road, in a state of panic. The road flattened out, and there was a lawn with an ornamental fountain, the grounds to some mountain palace. Then things got a little stranger. Statues, perhaps automated guards, came to me across the lawn. I fought with them and destroyed them, and aquired a brass plated spear, which I took in my free hand. Then a man ran towards me, bedecked in fine golden clothing, and a white wig, like an aristocrat from baroque times. He stood before me with a rapier, looking to fight me. I felt I had no choice but to eliminate all that saw me, so I fought with him, but he was a much better swordsman than me, and despite my greater strength I could not beat him. The fight moved towards the busy courtyard of the palace, where there was a party. The toff caught me on the fingers with his rapier and teased me over my crude sword technique. I became angry. I dropped the brass spear, which I used to ward off most of his blows, and punched him hard in the face. He went flying and fell unconscious. Then the other men at the part came at me with their swords. They were less refined in the art. I killed many of them, almost in a fit of violence now. From the palace there then stepped out an unarmed bald man who made some comment that really offended an infuriated me. I kicked away the men fighting me and dragged my blade across his scalp, saying “I’m marking you for later!”, and then got back to killing. I then made a run for an archway, and closed one of two thick wooden doors behind me, and dashed behind it to ambush the pursuit. The face that came first was that of the skilled swordsman, who spotted me and dodged my blow, jumping backwards. I brought the other door across, knowing he was better than me, and he stabbed at me through the narrowing gap. I then landed another punch in his face, before waking up from the dream.
The question is, am I guilty of killing all those people; the two women and the men in the courtyard? My judgements throughout the dream seem to be judgements that I would make in real life, and I was not lucid at all. I thought it was all absolutely real. I thought I was that genetically engineered human, and I really believed I was killing those people. I really meant to kill those women, although it was to protect my siblings. The point is, I had Mens Rea, although fortunately no one actually died by my hand. Can we be considered guilty of an act we commit in a dream, when the judgement in our dreams is as it is in waking life? Does this dream show me to be someone who would kill for a cause? Was I justified in killing those dream character? Did I do the right thing? Have you ever had a similar experience?
No, but I know what your talking about though. I’ve had something similar happen like that to me. It’s really intense. In my dream, I got on my knees and looked up at the sky and yelled, and then started to cry. Then I woke up.
I understand how shocked you are but don’t worry, lol it isn’t real so yea no big. plus if it still bothers you you could always just say to yourself that it was for a just cause and therfore perfectly ok. but I do understand how dreams can evoke such emotion, I’ve woke up crying about stupid stuff that happens like having a random dream and in it thinking that my dad was dead even though its obviously not true.
You weren’t in control of what was happening, it just felt that way. An illusion.
You aren’t guilty of anything, but regardless that feeling is powerful even after awakening. It’s startling. I believe if the cause is just, killing is acceptable. You were defending yourself and your siblings.
Believe me I know what you are feeling. Just the other night I had a dream I was involved in a riot/protest sort of thing on a college campus. I personally killed five police officers with a shotgun. The feeling afterwards however wasn’t so much guilt, rather regret. I was horrified at what I had done. The feeling that I knew I was going to be put to death or locked up forever. I had to run and hide. I couldn’t turn back time, and I felt so powerless and regretful.
These dreams are extremely startling, but they are only dreams. You didn’t kill anyone, neither did I. Dreams are messages from your sub-conscious, and aren’t meant to be interpreted literally.
The judgments you made only seem as though they would be the same in waking life, but it isn’t true. You were in an entirely different mindset in your dream whether you can realize it or not, you just remember it as being your normal frame of mind.
Don’t worry about it.
Fighting for survival is ok, but you seemed to lower the threshold and start to enjoy it as you went along. Still, as has been mentioned. In dreams we do things we wouldn’t normally do. I’d say we are much more impulsive in dreams. If you have certain ideas in your head, you might play them out if they fit in. Even if they don’t sometimes. Fighting is an instinct, we can’t hide from that.
In a dream once, I cut a mans head off with a knife. It’s a sick feeling, but I don’t feel like I would have done the same IRL even in that situation. In the end it is the choice I made, even if on a very weird level.
That’s true. I must admit I was actually having some sort of fun in that last fight. Over all, I’m not too worried about it, because when I first decided I had to kill, I believe I was justified, because I was doing it for the survival of the others, believing that I may actually die trying. I think I probably would do the same in real life if it came to a situation like that, although I think murder is terrible. The only bit that did worry me was that I did start to enjoy fighting, and started to act out of my own pride, like when the bald man insulted me.
The other day I had a dream where I was trying to kill someone for self protection (you can find it in my dream journal, the dream is called The Chase), I kept stabbing the dude, but he just wouldn’t die, so I didn’t really killed him… but still I tried.
Since you had a normal dream then I’m guessing it wasn’t really your fault that you killed them, I mean you didn’t really have control of how your dream played out. Although sometimes one can have control during ND, but still.
Of course it is just a dream, weird and irrational, but if it was real and you were killing to protect yourself and others I couldent call it imoral.
Would I kill to protect my family and friends? Yes, without a doubt.
Either way, that was one hell of a dream. 