I have trouble taking naps, but I have found times when I get lost in a type of dream, and everything about it is just like a dream except that as soon as I start to think I wake up immediately and it just fades. The strange part is that I don’t logically think within it, and the dream itself is sort of hypnotizing and I seem to just flow with it just like regular dreams. Would this qualify as a very vivid daydream or is this the very start of a real dream? Is this the same thing that some person was talking about in EWLD with the shiny helmets turning into a marching army?
probly the beginign of a dream
I know exactly what you are talking about Pilot, but I’m afraid I can’t explain what it is. To be honest, I usually just though of this as the first stage of falling asleep. I don’t think it’s accurate to say that this is the beginning of an actual dream, because for me this can happen before I’ve had any sleep that night (which means no actual dreams would occur for at least an hour).
These hypnagogics seem to be just daydreams, but enhanced because you are partially asleep. Maybe they are linked to actual dreams somehow, and can be used to successfully acheive WILD?
Yeah i agree with atheist
I’ve had this before and the logic just goes out the window 
I agree somewhat with you Atheist. The only thing that I’m not convinced of is that REM is the only period on which we dream. I have had pretty vivid and involved dreams after only forty-five minutes of sleep.
It sounds quite a bit like that man’s experience in EWLD. In that case the man watched his hypnogogic imagery until it coalesced into a dream. Maybe this is whats going on… the preamble to a dream. I’ve experienced this before, usually when I am really tired and my thoughts aren’t so persistent. My daydreaming mind wanders as I lay there with my eyes closed and more intricate plotlines and images begin to form. As with you… a loud thought scatteres the whole thing. I’ve never followed it through to actual dreaming.
You are right. 
Several years ago it was assumed that we only dream in REM, but more recently it was found that this is absolutely not the case. We also dream in NREM. Still, many people don’t know that.
So this is the NREM sleep I’ve been hearing about. Hypnodude, you once said: when you fall asleep and float into stage one (the stage with the hypnagogia) there is no rapid eye movement at all! This makes it not very likely that rapid eye movement is needed for HI.
This would mean that NREM sleep will lead to REM sleep and SP. Besides that, it would seem that there are two methods of WILD: One in association with WBTB after getting deep sleep out of the way and directly entering REM (and SP), and one involving a nap where you focus on HI (NREM) to enter REM sleep (and SP).
Any thoughts on this?
oh just to add to the confusion, I’ve heard that WILDs are possible after depriving yourself of sleep since your body is more in need of REM sleep than deep sleep. Would this be another method of WILD?
Excactly! 
For HI you need even SEM (slow eye movement).
I will post something on this in the theory forum later. (yeah yeah, this one is readable 
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SP can also occur during the HI state.
I think all WILD methods are roughly the same: Going through HI in REM as soon as possible.
Very good points all. I’ll do some reading up, to verify what I said. I’ll be back on this!