Expert advice needed: problem entering paralising and WILD

Quest for Lucidity
1

Hello all,

I really need advice. While trying to get WILD’s with all kind of techniques, I always get to the same point and get stuck there. I can’t find any infomation about my special case on the internet, so I ask you all for advice. I hope somebodu has the time to help me out.

Here is my problem:

Whatever technique I use:
relaxing body completely, sinking in the bed, stop-drop-rollover, concentrating on breath, self suggestion, looking behind the eyelids, keeping eyes still, using sleepbreath, … name it, …

Whatever time I use these techniques: first thing going to bed, middle of the night, in the morning, afther getting up for awhile or not, wbtb, you name it…

I always get to the same point:
My body seems very relaxed, at ease, very at ease, there is no roll over urge anymore, breathing is very slow, I can easily forget my body, even my mind, but nothing happens. I never reach sleep-paralysing, nor do I fall asleep. In other words: I can stay in this state for hours, mind awake, but body not sleeping, almost sleeping, very still, but not asking to go further, it stays there just at ease.

The problem is that how many hours I spend in this state (I stayed like this for 3 hours once, but normally I stay like this for 1 to 2 hours each night, for 3 weeks now, then give up, or get worried that I might not get enough real sleep), it doesn’t evolve to the body going to real sleep. At any moment I can move, open my eyes and get up, without any problem.

If I loosen my awareness, if I switch it off, I can fall asleep (not very easy and directly, I am not a good sleeper, but it works), but then I sleep and have no WILD, no OBE, I dream, but don’t get lucid spontaneasously. When I switch my awareness on, I just won’t fall asleep, howerver long I wait, whatever techniques I try.

Actually most of the time it goes like this:
I relax my body, when this is begin to work I get very close to sleep, mostly to a point where I feel myself falling, then something some strong alertness switches on (preventing me from really falling asleep) and then my mind is very awake, my body still at ease, comfortable, but not sleeping, afther that, whatever I try it is harder to get that close to sleep again (it is as if my body isn’t asking for it anymore, it feels comfortable with the trance), and if it happens again afther an hour or two, same thing, get very alert, mind gets very awake, very sharp, but body won’t fall asleep.

I suspect that it is correlated with my daily traditional sitting meditation practise that I have been doing for years now, every morning. I often encounter something very similar: in the beginning of my meditation I can get very sleepy, till the point that I actually fall asleep, then some alertness switches on, my mind gets very awake, and my body stays very calm and at ease, but not sleeping, this is a very conductive state to meditate, I can focus very well and for a long time, sleepiness is gone, and focus is very sharp.

But while lying down in my bed, and wanting to have lucid dreams, I don’t need this alertness, my awareness is enough, I can get very close to sleep only with awareness and without this alertness (this is what happens in the beginning before the falling feeling, the alertness only seems to switch on afther the falling feeling). I don’t need it in Lucid dream practise, but anyway it switches on, and I can’t switch it off.

Nowhere I read something about this alertness preventing the body to fall asleep. I only read that afther long time your body should fall asleep, well mine doesn’t, it feels very comfortable in the trance.

I also read that your body tests to see if it can go into sleep, well mine does, for sure, in the beginning, and when I do it when I am very tired, ex. in the evening, then it even hurts, so strong is the rollover reflex, but when I get over it, and get in this kind of mind awake, body at ease trance, the body just stops testing.
So you see, I am really stuck here, I hope you are familiar with this process, from own experience, or experiences of others and can help me out.

For your information: Many years ago (was not meditating then) had several lucid dreams, wilds, … so I am familiar with lucid dreaming and I know I can do it.

I hope you can help me out.

DreamyStivi
Belgium.

2

I have struggled with this as well. You aren’t alone.

Here’s a thought: possibly your awareness is too fixed on your body as you get relaxed.

Focusing on the body—as with tensing/relaxing muscles—helps the body unwind, but at a certain point, it seems, if the attention is held on the body you’ll never fall asleep.

Breath meditation works wonders for clearing the mind, but it is a body meditation, with the attention fixed on physical processes.

To enter dreaming directly, the attention has to be shifted away from the body.

How do you do this?

Well, I’m not a master. Here’s what I do. First of all, I rarely try to WILD or OBE at night. I sleep first for about five hours and then get up for a few minutes. I get up at a time when I’ll still be somewhat sleepy but am awake enough to concentrate a little. (That sweet spot is different for everyone.)

Like you, I lie in bed, do relaxation, focus the mind, do a trance-induction technique with some autosuggestion. (10-20 minutes, tops.) Then, I let go. I stop concentrating so hard and I let my mind wander and drift off. Often, I move my point of attention outside of my head—meaning, I imagine my mind/thoughts as happening a foot or so above my forehead at an angle. But I don’t focus on this too hard. I just bring myself back to lucidity from time to time as I drift off, but mostly don’t focus on it.

All my focus goes into getting myself super-lucid and relaxed (entranced) for a few minutes and then I let go.

What really matters, for me, is (1) getting up at the right time and (2) the intensity of my short 10-minute induction session. I’d describe a good session as one in which I rev up my confidence and have fun with what I’m doing even while I’m single-minded.

What happens: A big percentage of the time (75%+), if I do the WBTB at the right time and seriously (and with fun) do the exercises, I fall asleep and wake up in sleep paralysis in a few minutes. Or, I fall asleep and have a spontaneous DILD.

Why my body works this way, I don’t know. Obviously, I’d like to have absolute control and be able to move smoothly from waking to SP, but my body seems (right now) to require that I let go (to the point of sleep) after a period of intense concentration.

Something to contemplate: what does a sleeping mind feel and look like? Try to imitate that, with a critical low-threshold of lucidity still there. But also remember that breakthroughs always come with letting go.

3

Thanks dreamosis, for your very interesting and supporting post.

It is very true what you say, and I happen to have discovered just the same thing as you write here.

Monday I had my first lucid dream since years, I want to share it, to show that it is similar to what you describe and maybe it can help others, especially meditators who have learned to focus very different then what is needed for lucid dreams.

I discovered that I had to loosen my focus a lot, not like in sitting meditation. To much focus for me means no sleep and no chance for getting lucid.

I also discovered that there is a sense of non-physical space, that’s where I had to focus more, not in my physical head, but more to the space where strange thoughts and so come from.

Anyhow, here is what happened. First of all I had a good night sleep, without practise the night before, a holiday (or better a holinight) I think that was needed. Then yesterday evening I went to bed with a light focus on that non-physical space, very light focus, so if sleep came it could drag me away, that s what happened. I woke up spontaneously at 2 in the morning, went to the toilet, stretched a little and went back to bed. First lying on my back, but couldn’t stand it for long like this, so switched to my side and later on even on my belly, felt that I only could fall asleep like this, also I kept my awareness active, but not to strong, I focused lightly on this space, letting my mind loose, like daydreaming, focused on the space where this daydreaming thoughts and vague images came from. I seemed to stay like this, slightly knowing that I was aware, until I had the following experience:

I first heard these strange whooshing noises I remembered having years ago when trying to wild. So I got a little excited and it stopped. Then took myself together and told myself that nothing whatsoever mattered, just staying loosely aware until I fell asleep, even sleep was no problem, after some time there where the sounds again, I stayed calm and let my mind sink little more deeper in the trance, until I experienced a shaking rush all over my body. At that point I knew sleep paralysing started. Excited again and everything stopped, and paralysing was gone. So calmed myself again, being just happy I got this far, cool, good progress, that’s enough for this night. I even opened my eyes for awhile. Then resumed daydreaming again, it took some time I guess, but In the end I got the sensations again, but stayed calm, and there I was, could open my dream eyes, I knew it were my dream eyes because strange feelings where still there unless I had my eyes open, very different from the last time I had my eyes open, so it had to be a dream. Got little excited, but focused on the strange feelings and sounds to stay in. I wanted to get up, but was stuck, glued to the bed, so I moved around, pulled, pushed, soaked, until I rolled out of the bed and fell on the ground. Yes, I did it, I entered the dream, lucid and clear. I was in a small room, I saw no door, so I had to fly through the roof to get some more exciting experiences. So I started flying to the roof and bam, I bumped back. Looked around, flew around a bit and enjoyed the feeling, but then I realised that I really had to persist and believe I could get trough. So with all my power I flew back direction the roof and with a lot of trouble and noise I got further trough, but got stuck somewhere between the roof and the room, it was so dark in there that I lost the focus on the dream and woke up. But I was very happy I got so far this time.

The keys for me where indeed: not focussing to hard and not focussing on the body.

The next night I was so excited that I focussed again to hard almost whole night long, so I had not much sleep, and no dream-recall at all :smile:

The next night (this morning) I relaxed again, focussed a little every time I woke up, but still too tense, finally I saw it was 5.20 and at 6 my alarm would sound, so I gave up, and just then it happened again: suddenly felt my dream-body lying in the bed (without visuals this time), stuck to the bed. Rolled over my head to break loose en came on my two feet: TaDa, lucid again (but no visuals, only feeling), and it only lasted for a minute or so, but it gave the good feeling, the lucid rush, I love it, it gives so much energy.

Conclusion: Focussing and then letting go is the way to go, for me, just like you wrote!

Thanks for sharing!

4

You’re welcome. Thanks for sharing as well.

My most memorable experiences have always come out of a carefree mindset.