what i currently really want to know is, has anyone - amongst those here who are of a high enough LDing skill, of course - has anyone experimented with any sort of manipulation of dimensions? like, i dunno, trying to make a 4D sculpture, or a painting that only consists of colours that don’t exist in this physical realm…?
Or, more esoteric i suppose, has anyone ever considered trying any sort of experiment with useful real-world connotations? say, trying to re-examine Einsteins relativity theory with a view to actually solving the various flaws that WL physicists have been thus far unable to reconcile…
and no, i dont think it would take a physicist who just happened to be a LD master… its your Dream, after all - arrange, from the outset, when programming the DreamState for the experiment, that the whole thing be structured in a fashion that you can comprehend, even if only just barely.
The scope and power of LDing, when taken as far as it can go, can surely be used to solve our RL problems - remember, also that the majority of big historical breakthroughs were solved with the help of dreams.
Seriously, am I the only one who has ever thought of this sort of thing, or am i just late?? LOL
lol well, with respect, i would beg to differ, bro - the Lucid DreamState is limited by one thing and one thing only - our mindstate.
anything that we can imagine, in an LD state, can be achieved with a little imagination. Sure in this Waking Life, the 4th dimension has no literal physical “shape” but that simply doesn’t matter in the LD state… if you have a strong enough will, and a strange enough mind, you could set the “state” of Time within your experimental area of the dream, to be represented by bright blue custard.
physicists in the RW have to do it all the time - they cant directly see or interact with most of the things they are experimenting with,so they have to think up work-arounds, representations of things that are intrinsically unrepresentable…
The computer we are probably both using to write these posts, not to mention so many other things we take for granted, would not have been created without the human ability to see the unseeable.
Do as the Red Queen said to Alice - make a habit of believing six impossible things before breakfast
its not a concept you can grasp well enough to dream of acurately. and its not anything tangible to dream about, nor is it a feeling or anything u can experience.
I would argue that in the act of making a clock of any kind, we make something intangible - Time - into something very tangible - the clock.
and to say its not something you can experience? You are experiencing it every second of your life, surely…
but still, as I said before, just because something can’t be perceived directly, doesn’t mean it can’t be used as the basis for some very practical, and visible, things - physicists are doing it all the time when they work within the field of Quantum mechanics and many if not all of the other fields of scientific study.
Well, a clock is an object which measures time, not a physical form of it. Also, the thing is, if you aren’t sure in waking life what something would be physically, it can’t very well transfer into your dreams, projections of your mind, could it? An interesting thought, but with what we know, it would take a very abstract mind to make something out of a concept of flow.
im with op on this. ^ in essence a clock is a physical piece of time… time gave birth to the peices that made it and the clocksmith himself. time allows things to thrive and live. time is there for you to simply BE, in the midst of its existence.
thats all i can say right now- my time (lol) and money is up on this comp.
If you’ve never experienced the 4th dimension, I don’t think its possible to recreate it, even in dreams. you see, going to explanation beyond the 3rd dimension is not so easy. Like someone else mentioned, the 4th dimension is considered to be time itself.
There’s people who have experienced the 4th dimension in dreams, so I can safely say it’s possible. A purely spatial 4th dimension could be fun to live in and experiment with, however I find myself doubting the existence of such a thing in reality. The dimensions over the 4th are more than just space-time IMHO.
fretdancer - as i said before, direct experience of something isnt necessary to make useful deductions from that something - no physicist ever directly experiences a sub atomic system but that hasnt prevented them from making all sorts of useful deductions many of which have lead to new technology that possesses a very physical form.
so what im saying is basically the same, but on steroids lol - for eg what if someone were to use LDs to get to grips with basic relativity theory - with the experiential possibilities provided by LDs you no longer need to be frightened away by all that crazy advanced calculus, represent the relevant info in any way that works for you - we could start applying current knowledge in experimental ways that just arnt monetarily/technologically feasible in the physical as yet.
heres another eg just off the top of my head - recreate the Large Hadron Collider in your DS, having speed-read a few dozen of the most up to date works in the relevant fields… give your SC free reign to process all this subliminal info, with a view to improving it if poss… build that Collider and then ask your SC to improve it… then, provided you can recall enough detail upon waking, see if it can actually be applied in the physical realm.
(god, what i would give to have an actual quantum physicist here right now, who can also LD )
Francis Crick, one of the two credited with the concept of the DNA double helix, is on record as saying that he received the image of the helix in a dream - he went to sleep puzzling on the problem and his SC helped him solve it!
if that is what is possible with NDs the possibilities that Lucidity offer are… breath taking…
surely im not the first to whom this has occurred?? damn, i cannot wait til Im regularly Lucid…
sorry im kinda ranting but sometimes i just get on a roll y’know?
just watched that vid of the great Carl Sagan, fretdancer, thanx for that link - i think it really bolsters my point actually… like Sagan demonstrates, we cant physically perceive the 4th dimension but we can project its “shadow” into ours, study and experiment with that, and then “project” those results back into a 4D situation.
of course, the oh-so-bendable “rules” of the LD space allow for things that we cant do in WL - with a bit of thought, situations can surely be “built” in DreamSpace that allow for experiments to be performed that then directly affect our understanding of, and thus our technology within, the physical dimension of WL.
not that LDs shouldnt be used for fun and games, but i think their practical applications are also limited only by our imaginations. as soon as im able i plan on doing just that, so watch this DreamSpace!
ok i admit technicly you’re right (sigh) but that really wasnt the point i was tryin to make, bro… and as iv said several times now, it doesnt mean that 3D visualisations of 4D things aren’t very useful for experimenting in ways that help us in the physical realm…
i was simply wondering if anyone besides me had seen the possibilities that LD skills might open up for us in terms of RL tech and scientific/spiritual understanding…
When I was more into Maths, I once got a pendant with a hypercube jewel. But since it was a normal, rather unfocused dream, I can’t vouch that it was actually four-dimensional.
And a couple other times I had dreams involving the concept of higher dimensions, but rather than actually experiening them, it was something along the lines of The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension.
I’ve thought of things like that. and I think it’s more than possible. It’s possible to experience things in dreams that you have no (conscious) idea of how they would be. The SC is way ahead of us! All our SC’s are probably thinking right now “only 4? oh c’mon, give me a real challenge!”
Anyway, I’m not that good yet either and have lots of other things to try before this. I believe you’d probably have to have a great control over the stability of the dream, since exploring a 4th dimention would surely make things weird enough to make every thing start falling apart (well, for me at least). Since you’re really getting down to fundamental stuff here that forms our world.
If you succeeded though, I bet you’d wake up and not be able to understand it anymore, maybe even start wondering if you really experienced it or if it was some kind of false memory. Anyway, should be awesome!
Yeah but how can you recreate something that you’ve never experienced, seen? Most (if not all) of the out-of-ordinary things you do in LDs are because you’ve seen them in fiction, or have been accomplished already, making it easier and possible for the mind to recreate it even if you haven’t experienced it yourself.
Anyways, I think this could be an interesting Lucid Quest
yes fret that would be an awesome quest - pity im not LDing myself yet else i would do it for sure
yea its difficult to do, but as i said this doesnt stop the physicists does it? we wouldnt be visiting this forum if it had lol
so would we be, Y4, in the DS experiments… its just a matter of choosing something, which can be similar or arbitrary depending on how abstract ones mind works, choosing something to represent the thing/value/concept that cant be percieved, and using that in experiments. this is just what had to be done by Sagan in that vid that fret posted - he said that altho he couldnt directly perceive 4 dimensions, he could see the “shadow” that 4Ds project onto/into our three dimensions - so that is what the physicists had to work with.
a suitably abstract mind could work equations that had New Jersey CheeseCake as one of their parts! its not the ingredients in equations that matter, its their underlying meanings.
LOL hark at me talking about advanced mathematics, and struggling to do simple long devision
LOL
