First, watch this video.
youtube.com/watch?v=waKPhzOn7Uw
Then, the next time you have an LD, ask the first person you see this question: “Why can’t people do anything that’s genuine on purpose?”
Keep pressing the DC until you get a clear response that you can understand.
Sounds interesting, but I do do genuine things on purpose sometimes, can’t speak for others, but I know others who do as well. Sure, my “embroidery” isn’t always the same on the front as the back, but sometimes it is. I can’t speak for anything subconscious that might be happening when I want to do something for someone for no reason at all. But if everything a person did was a lie, what’s the point of believing most anything? If humans can’t do something genuine, then he must not be able to be giving the lectures for genuine reasons either.
Beside the point though, the task does sound interesting. I might try this myself. However, I will say. If you’re giving us the task, I’d like to hear what you’ve encountered with the task yourself. We’re not all going to get the same answer in our dreams as another, since our brains talk to us in different ways. It sounds like you’ve done the task before, so I’d like to hear your experiences with it as well.
Rather depressing video to be honest and also incorrect. Good way to turn really bitter if you actually believe that sort of stuff.
Incorrect?
Well, for centuries, Zen masters have challenged their students to intentionally do something that’s genuine, and none of them have done it yet.
But of course some of you folks can do it, right?
I can’t watch the video… I’m on my school laptop and can’t get on youtube…
Well then I don’t see what’s genuine about what you do either. I know I do genuine things, sometimes, not all the time, but if what you’re saying is true, then I have no reason to believe you. Which nullifies the point in the first place.
hmmm… why would I even waste a LD on this? I already have a list of stuff to do
And so there’s another person here who could do it but just refuses to. Right.
I didn’t say that nobody does anything that’s genuine. I said that nobody can INTENTIONALLY do anything that’s genuine.
I was just saying that it isn’t important to me, so why waste that time? It isn’t like if I don’t want to do a task that I can’t LD…
I actually agree with this guy, Alan Watts. I arrived at a similar conclusion in my dreams among other things.
Also, to make a comparison, I can play piano but just because I don’t want to play a certain piece doesn’t mean I can’t play at all. I just know better things I can play instead.
Just an example, if a person deliberately gives his life to rescue somebody that he never met before…what’s not genuine about that? Did that never happen?
Stand up from your keyboard right now and do something that’s not an affectation.
You can’t do it. You’ll freeze up.
You’re avoiding my answer. You claimed it would not be possible at all.
Anyway, If you would only have posted the link to that video anonymously and not a word more, i would still have known it would have been posted by you, because it fits your posts and personality on this forum strikingly. It’s like a self fullfilling prophecy. You believe that you and everyone else can’t act genuine, so you act all arogant and preconsumptious towards others. As a result nobody is willing to put time in your experiment. In the end you’ll say: “See! I was right about you people. You all couldn’t do it.” While it’s all just a result of your own attitute and not the people on this forum or because some zen master says so.
“Some Zen master” says it? No, all Zen masters say it.
This is a koan.
Anything you do that’s genuine is automatic behavior. If it’s not automatic, it’s an affectation.
If you don’t think that’s true, then do something intentionally that’s not an affectation.
Of course, you can’t. You’ll always freeze up.
The question is, why is that the case?
Do like what? Can’t you be a little less abstract? You’re trying to think in black and white, while you live a colorful world (and you’re still avoiding the example being given). Do you actually believe that every time somebody greets you, helps you, gives you something, answers a question, retrieves your lost wallet or rescues you that it’s all the just for their own affection to do so. That there’s no difference between them doing the exact opposite? Darn that must really really suck to see the world this cold. That every time somebody helps you, you think: “Whatever, they don’t like me, they just like to please their selves” or “It’s just a chemical reaction in their brain that made them do that.”
Come on. I know your reading comprehension is better than that.
I’m going to say it again, and I hope you’ll actually pay attention this time, instead of just catching your breath so you can argue with me some more.
The only genuine action is an automatic action. Any action that isn’t automatic is an affectation.
Now that is a fact. There is nothing to argue about over it.
If you don’t believe it, then stand up right now and do something that isn’t an affectation.
You’ll freeze up every time you try it.
The question is, why is that so?
I disagree with you. Rescuing someone isn’t an automatic action, therefore you’re saying that it isn’t genuine. Wow.
I have locked this topic. Clearly this isn’t going anywhere.