Important - new info on LD friendly chemicals/herbs!

Today I met a holistic practitioner who has studied in egypt and the usa. He’s got some pretty interesting things in the back of his shop, not least of which is a bottle of some tincture for pain that literally has a preserved EGYPTIAN COBRA in the bottle. Not a fake, the real thing. He told me the stuff made him 100% free from pain for 3 days after taking one swig of it.

Anyway, after an hour or so of conversation at his shop, I learned two really important things.

1.) If you take melatonin SUBLINGUALLY (under your tongue in a powder) it GREATLY enhances REM sleep.

2.) There is another substance called 7-keto that has not, to my knowledge, been mentioned on this forum. According to his first hand accounts, this substance will ‘make you dream in full living color.’ He has never quanitified his dreaming experiences the way we do here, but I’m guessing that means a very vivid dream that could easily be OBE like.

I’ve invited him to the forum and I really hope he shows up. We are going to be doing some research (using the term loosely) together on the cryogenine in H. Salicifolia and perhaps a few other things, and I feel he would be a great asset to our community here.

If he comes to our forum, please treat him with the dichotomy of respect and nurturing that is necessary for someone like him. He’s quite a bit more qualified as an herbalist than I (an perhaps anyone else on this forum), but he is not an expert in the science of lucid dreaming.

Anyway, I just hope he shows up. :smile:

Hey that sounds awsome maybe he can find a new effortless technique or sumthin, that would get him instant fame from hundreds of people :grin:

Wow, it sounds like he has some valuable things to share with us. I really hope he decides to join. Thanks for welcoming him to the community. I really would like to read one of his experiences with “7-keto.” Whatever that is.

I’ve tried melatonin lots of times, I usually keep a bottle. Now I will have to buy another bottle to try what you mentioned. Could I just crush up a pill and place it under my tounge? My first experiences with melatonin were the most strange and vivid.

We hope everyone treats all of our newcomers with respect and nurturing. :smile: We have many visitors, young and old, but all have a great level of maturity.

yeah, crush it up and put it under your tongue. :smile:

“A few years ago, Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) was touted as an anti-aging miracle-worker.”

Further on the page:

“If you were concerned about adding DHEA as a supplement to your regimen of healthy diet and exercise, because of its role in promoting sex hormones, it’s time to celebrate. Researchers recently discovered an even more potent derivative of DHEA, 7-Keto DHEA, and it’s entirely free of these side effects.”

“With 7-Keto DHEA, you may experience:
 Boosted immune system — 7-Keto DHEA increases the production Interleukin-2 and specialized white blood cells, both of which strengthen immune defenses.
 Cardiovascular benefits —7-Keto DHEA reduces your risk of heart disease, heart attack and stroke.
 Higher metabolism — 7-Keto DHEA activates enzymes in the liver that increase the rate of thermogensis (the process by which fat is burned).
 Prevention of diabetes
 More energy” … fm?ID=1318

It is interesting because when you read more about these hormone supplements they seem outstanding. GHB it touted by my friend at a cure all, especially for sleep, he swears it does many things including make you feel like a kid again, he also said it makes you dream like crazy. He says it puts you into REM sleep like crazy. Of course, GHB used to be sold right here in the good old USA, before people started consuming it like soda pop, and candy. Makes you think a little.

Melatonin, Dictionary: “Hormone secreted by the pineal gland.” Huh, my name DMT, DMT the spirit molecule, how about that! DMT especially effects the pineal gland and is present in everyone’s body, an extremely powerful psychedelic.

7-Keto is most interesting.

Some comments below on different drugs with a mix of Melatonin. Melatonin another hormone with seems to amplify dreams.

holy CRAP.

I tried the sublingual melatonin last night and I was BLOWN AWAY by it’s power. It was almost like a small dose of DXM (2x recommended dose on the bottle.) but more pronounced. It came in definite waves and just hammered at my consciousness.

I can’t explain it any better… it just slammed into my consciousness with thoughts going 10000 miles per hour and the hypnogogic imagry was almost overwhelming. I got more tired by SLEEPING than I already was!!!

You guys have GOT to try this! Stay WELL within my recommended dosage (see old forum i think) because it is A L O T stronger this way, and you will recall that there are side effects from the stuff if you overdose on it.


Davion-your posts sound so damn optimistic!!!Thanks for putting hope in my heart:)
But-i didnt get your last post…what was the effect?What about this overdosing?was it 2mg or 4mg pill?
id appreciate your answer with bit more details.

againn…thx HEAPS:)

hehe funny, how about his synchronicity.

I just posted on horomones

Sherrill Sellman
The Dangers of Hormone Drugs

if not on main page, check archives.

Now I am not ultimately familular with hormones, so maybe I should see what she has to say. hmm??? hehe

I read your post Davion, give us some more info.

I’ll post more later, but here is a dosage statement from Dr. Andrew Weil.


I’ve always said to half the dosage on the bottle. My bottle has 2mg tablets, so one is good for two days.

Does anyone one know about herbs that stimulate the body to produce more melatonin or something like that? I somehow like plants more than chemicals, this is not a rational thing that I could explain, it just “feels” better
This is really interesting stuff Davion,thanks.It is not that i fully reject any kind of chemicals…
I hope your friend will join us also.Oh yes, I have a book about “drugs” that are already in our body.According to the book we are able to produce most of the drugs out there by ourselfs, and there were techniques how.There was also a section about melatonin, so I think I will read about it today,if it is interesting I will post (the “techniques” are only described very shortly, sometimes it is just “meditation” or something)



Eating turkey causes the body to release large amounts of melatonin.

Hey Davion I got a couple questions:
How long does it take for the effects to kick in?
Would this be good for WILD’s or WBTB tech’s?

with the sublingual method it takes about 10 minutes to ‘kick in.’

I think it would be okay for wild. :smile:

Unfortunately there wasn´t much about it in my book.It only said that melatonin makes you sleepy, animals use it to get into wintersleep.In humans it can cause winterdepressions, but I think this only happens if you´d take it everday or something, and then you simply stop it.
The two ways that were given to enhance melatonin in your body was autogene training (but that is difficult without a teacher) or meditation.But it was only one of many things that should be enhanced by meditation, so I don´t know if this is such an effective way (especially since I am not experienced in meditation)
Thanks for the advice Davion, but unfortunately (only unfortunately when talking about this subject :wink: ) I am vegetarian.
But perhaps there are also other things that on can eat for more melatonin.I will do some more research, if anyone else knows about that please post.



I have tried melatonin for 3 days in a row, sublingually, and the dreams are getting more and more clear.

I had a very interesting dream last night about being taken below the water in a very huge swamp. Keep in mind this was a completely coherent dream, in full living color. I went below the water, and the swamp ran very, very deep (not true of a real swamp.) Below the water, the cyprus trees were being cut from the root and turned into lumber and other such products. There was a huge high-tech production factory there beneath the water. The dream was beautiful, but a little scary.

Oh, BTW, the winter blues (S.A.D. - seasonal affective disorder) is actually caused by a seratonin shortage. Since melatonin is the counterbalance of seratonin, it’s likely that the loss of seratonin generation by solar radiation is exacorbated by the increase in melatonin, thereby making things worse… so in the winter, just sip some wonderful tasting calea z. tea. :wiske:

Are the dreams lucid though?

How bad does this taste and how fast does it dissolve? Also are you taking this @ your normal sleeping time where you still have to go through delta sleep or in the morning after waking up and only needing about 10 minutes to return to REM sleep?

I page with some surveys on people taking melatonin sublingually

The appropriate dose can vary enormously from person to person. Dr. Pierpaoli, a leading melatonin researcher, has successfully used dosages ranging from 0.1 to 200 mg. That’s a 2000-fold difference between the lowest dose and the highest! Several intelligent melatonin users we know started by taking 3 mg at 11 p.m., and then adjusted the dose from there. If they found that they slept well but were drowsy in the morning, they cut the dose in half. If they found the dose had little or no sleep-inducing effect, they increased the dose by 3 mg each night until they got the desired effect. We have received reports from one person who gets good results from less than one milligram, and several from people who use in the vicinity of 20 mg. Most people get good results with doses between 3 and 10 mg.

traumgänger, I just read that magnesium stumulates the melatonin synthesis!