Language learning!

Isn’t that a term from cheer leading? One head (or whatever) cheer leader who shouts (“hollers”) the phrases, and the rest of the team shouts them back => so a hollerback girl is a girl who’s job it is to repeat whatever the one on top is shouting.

Native language: german.

Wow, that’s tough question to start with! I hope this helps:

If I say “Minä syön leipää”, where “leipä” (‘bread’) is in the partitive case, that means “I’m eating (some) bread”, and I’m not specifying if I’m going to eat the whole bread.

If, on the other hand, I say “Minä syön leivän” (that’s not nominative but genitive, the other object case for the singular, nominatives are used for plural objects and in special cases), that means “I’m going to eat the (whole) bread”.

The technical term in linguistics is telicity, which basically about whether the action or process expressed in the sentence is goal-oriented or not. “I painted the houses” is telic (in Finnish: “Minä maalasin talot” where -t is plural nominative) because the sentence expresses that all the houses got painted, whereas “I was painting houses” is atelic, ie. non-telic (in Finnish: “Minä maalasin taloja”, with -ja for plural partitive) because it is not said that the purpose really was to have the houses painted instead of just putting some paint on the walls. :smile:

See also! Wikipedia about telicity

PS. Because you talked about the difference about the partitive and nominative, I think this is not what you were talking about, but another case of where the partitive is used. Oh man! It really is not a simple case. :tongue: I’m going to think about that, but meanwhile, can you give examples of the distinction?

:lol: Well, that helps, because I wasn’t quite getting what was the whole point of partitives in the first place. So thanks! :smile:

I was thinking of the common greeting sentence, like “hyvää yötä” (good night)—why on Earth is “night” partitive, and oh–Maan–WHY is “good” partitive too? goes hysterical and starts running around :razz:

Although another doubt I had (when to use kilometer in the nominative, and when to use it in the genitive) was cleared by your explanation.

Thanks! :ok:

This is a good thread to have…I know a little French, and I’ll probably have far more questions than help for others. Although, at the moment, I don’t have any…oh, wait, there’s one! Comment dit-on “lucid dream” en français? “Un rêve lucide,” peut-être? Merci!

Hey, cool thread, i know quite alot of japanese so if anyone needs some help with that, i am also learning dutch, so chances are i’ll probably be asking some questions about that :tongue:

I think greetings like “hyvää yötä” come from a full sentence like “Minä toivotan sinulle hyvää yötä” (“I wish you a good night”), where the “good night” is the object of the sentence (I don’t know why it isn’t “hyvän yön”, it’s as if the good night is wished only partially :tongue:). So, why isn’t it just “hyvä yötä”? That’s because of agreement: The adjective “hyvä” is a modifier for the word “yö”, so it agrees with it in case and number. That’s what Finnish adjectives do, just like in Latin and many other languages. :smile:

Do you study Finnish or do you know someone who speaks Finnish? To tell the truth, I didn’t expect many questions about Finnish. :tongue:

I think that’s how you say it, yeah. Un(e?) rêve lucide.

Edit: I can’t answer in French but I did fully understand that ! :happy: ("How do you say a lucid dream in French? ‘Un rêve lucide’, maybe?)

Yes, “a lucid dream” is “un rêve lucide” in french.

:yay: I’m glad the idea was successfull :happy: A lot of people seemed interested in this :smile:

Hey, how about we make a list of how to say LD in several language? Just for the kicks.

I’ll start…
Portuguese: Sonho Lúcido

French: Un rêve lucide
Dutch: Een lucide droom
English: A lucid dream
Belgian: Een lucide droom (XD)

XD

I know French and some Spanish. I used to live in Toulouse Basilus West. :content:

Nice idea.

German: Luzider Traum (not terribly imaginative, is it?)

To make it a bit more interesting: most people wouldn’t be familiar with that term. The words “bewußter Traum” would at least be understandable.

How is the portuguese term pronounced?

First off, thank you a lot! :happy: I think I understand the partitive case now. At least a little.

I’ll have to learn when it’s commonly used, especially against nominarive, accusative and genitive, because there’s no such a thing as partitive in Brazillian Portuguese (there used to be, but Metonimical Crystalization and Pragmatic Tolerance whiped it away from the Brazillian mind, probably people from Portugal would understand the partitive with more ease). But now I have a starting point, I can see what it means. So thanks :smile:

And to answer your question: I’m learning Finnish by myself. So far, so good, it isn’t as tough as people say, for it’s a most logical language, but the completely different vocabulary and the pronounciation are really going to take me some time.

If anyone needs help with Brazillian or Angolan Portuguese, Brittish or American English, I can help!

In Brazil, [color=#333333]/soŋu lusɨdu/[/color]. The nh group is pronounced like the Spanish ñ, similar to the Italian gn. The stress is in the bold syllables, and the other vowels are really short. :smile: I might record it when I get a microphone.

Bewußter Traum—literally, that means aware dream, right? :smile: I’m guessing because, in Dutch, the subconscious is called onderbewust–something which, literally, means under aware.

Judging by pasQuale’s Dutch website, Dutch accepts both expressions: lucid dream (lucide droom) and aware/conscious dream (bewust(e?) droom).

Let me be your German - English translator.

I’m glad to help someone understand niceties of grammar, I love grammar! :smile:

There used to be a partitive case in Portuguese? I didn’t know that. I wonder if it was similar to the Finnish partitive, linguists are known to have used same terms for different things. :tongue: But I guess partitive always means that something is affected only partially, and that’s what it’s about.

Heh, that’s nice. I understand your point about vocabulary. I’ve grown learning Germanic or Romance words that are quite similar in all the languages of Europe, so when I started learning Swahili, it was a bit difficult when there were almost no familiar words. :smile:

Maybe I could record you pronunciations of some Finnish phrases some time. :tongue:

Also called “Klartraum”.

In Finnish, it’s “selkouni” (“selko” or “selkeä” means ‘clear’ or ‘lucid’, and “uni” means dream) or just to take the English term, “lucid-uni”. :tongue:

The Portuguese language comes from Proto–Indo–European, an inflected language with many modes. One of them was partitive, and although no Indo–European language nowadays seems to have it (not that I’m aware of), many aspects of them derive from it, like the uncountable nouns.

In Iberic :smile:from Portugal) Portuguese, uncountable nouns are still used, so you cannot count things like milk, rather having to use partitive particles, like “some,” with it.

Now, Brazillian Portuguese is a crazy language. Think about it: the Portuguese base was transformed and merged with native languages (Tupi, Guarani and the Jê languages, mainly) and african slave languages (espcially Yoruba and Bantu), and also with French and Dutch from the invasors and pirates, and Arabic and Italian from the immigrants, and recently with English because of the cultural hegemony of the North American Empire and the Internet.

Since a language reflects a culture, and Brazil is a pluricultural place, the Brazillian language ceased from being logical, denotative and became poetic, connotative, in order for any person of any culture to be able to express their thought through it. Which means pretty much any sentence you make is valid. So although Iberic Portuguese derives from a language with partitive, and thus bears partitive particles, Brazillian Portuguese doesn’t, accepting formations like “today I drank two milks” and such—any Brazillian will understand it refers to “two cups of milk,” while “today I bought two milks” will be interpreted as “today I bought two boxes of milk.”

The grammatical aspect that lets you make errors and be right is called “Pragmatic Tolerancy.” :smile: I hope this isn’t too confusing.

Please do! :content:

Bewußter Traum means aware dream (literally), indeed. Bewust in Dutch is consious, and the subconscious is called “onderbewustzijn”. Onder being under, bewust being aware, zijn being the verb “to be” (Although in this case it’s more part of the word, rather than the verb :razz:).

Een lucide droom is the literal translation of Lucid Dream while a Bewuste Droom (aware dream) can be compared to “Bewußte Traum” and a “Luzide Traum” (not respectively :happy:)

Edit: And about your doubt if it was “Bewust” or “Bewuste”, in the adjective-form it’s “Bewuste”. An example for “Bewust” without an e would be… “Ik heb bewust gedroomd.” (I have dreamed consciously).

Mi parolas Esperanton.