I posted this comment under hypnosis, but it also applies to this, and since I am just keeping track of my “research”…
I’m not an expert by any means. In fact, I suck at it. Two LDs a week may just be from thinking about it all the time.
But then again if I was just trying to have LDs then this topic would clealry fit under another topic, not its own. I’m more interested in getting stuck between both worlds like Jeff was talking about, and being able to posibly control the functions of yor brain. 
I really wish jeff would layout some of his experience 
I meditate often and I have to agree with Jeff.
I do pick up solar plexus when I’m in delta waves. It becomes very dominant. Very dominant. The key is to let everything go, but be one with breathing at the same time… and be empty too. As Jeff said, spliting consciousness helps a lot with deep trances.
Anyways, I discover that it’s not a need to control or alter my mind even though I meditate often. It’s more like compromising and understanding the deep itself, the subconsciousness. You cannot deny that subconsciousness do have a function in controlling your consciousness in a way. Also, subconsciousness is who you are. It’s deep in your subconsciousness. If you’re not ready for this trance, you won’t be able to get into this trance unless you’re ready for it. Also, when you’re really ready for it, everything seems to become easier. That happened to me before. It was impossible for me to reach Delta waves, but then one day, I was in it all of a sudden. It was easy. It shocked me. It was weird, but yes I got there.
I must say that the key of greater control over your trances is feeling. Purely feel where you are at. Purely feel your breath. Purely feel your charkas. Feel and at the same time, be empty. Easier said than done. Also practicing makes perfect. 
I just had to jump in and say a bit more about it. 
Hopefully it is helpful. 
Can you guys describe how you lower your brainwaves? It is easy for me to enter trance states with my wave generator, but… Is it the breathing?
Sometimes I notice that I don’t feeling like I am breathing at all anymore. Then when I notice this it feels like I am choking, so I have to counciously focus on my breathing. I think this is associated with the lower brainwaves, because it is once I get deep into the trance.
Dm7 do you hear noises when crossing in between the two worlds?
I just let myself fall asleep while I focus on breathing. I use splitting consciousness technique to lower my brainwaves. I don’t use any type of sounds or wave generator like you said. I’m deaf so I have to do it on my own anyways. Yes it’s partly breathing.
When I meditate, my breathing start to become automatic then next thing I know, I’m so one with it that I don’t even need to breath. I can just totally forget about breathing and be still totally fine.
I do hear a lot of noises. It really depends where I am in. If I go for beyond delta waves, then I usually hear roaring or music sounds. If I’m either in theta (dreaming) waves or at beginning of delta waves, I hear rythmic sounds. That sound, I focus on it… it helps me to go into a deeper trance.
Hopefully everything is a bit clearer for you? Please let me know.
Dm7,
This is so cool! Might I ask a personal question, please? I was wondering if you were born deaf? I was wondering about the music you hear. 
I have enjoyed reading your posts for a while now. I’m glad you are here.
Love
GreenEyes,
Thanks… that means a lot to me.
Well, theorically, being born 3 months premature got me deaf. I think I was able to hear just fine just before they gave me strong antibotics. That’s what might caused me to be deaf.
Music I hear… it’s usually smooth and have a lot of “happiness” to it. It’s hard to explain. 
Any more questions? 
yeah you areen’t too bad at operating your brain… try to elaborate 
Lol Toadstool she is doing that quite right and good
Trance is a split conscious thing in its basics.
In the west, scientists mostly still think you sleep or you are awake, but u can split your consciousness and let one part fall
a sleep and one part be awake but at the same time being passive, empty if you like that word better.
The far east knows that now for thousands of years.
They made it into an art.
The way i do a wild most of the time toadstool.
I go lay on my bed on my back.
I put my left feet over my right.
I put my right hand on my plexus solaris.
The left hand i put above my bellybutton and therefor under the right hand.
A starter/beginner can place its left hand also above its right hand on the heart chakra’s place is a little easier when u have no experience.
The plexus solaris is the place of your real subconsiousness.
The plexus solaris is strongly connected to the brainstem and to delta waves.
You cant open it by visualizing, only in delta it starts to open fully.
Also breathing out conects to relaxation in a natural way and to delta waves.
So this is what i do, i let my head fall a sleep, its like acting, like you say to your head…ok go sleep…fall a sleep.
Then i focus my breathing in and out at my plexus solaris and i make it one with my awareness.
So awareness and breathing become one, in and out.
when i breathe out my awareness automatically lets totally go of all, of everything.
When i breathe in my awareness stays as passive and empty as possible
but totally focussed and one with breathing and the plexus solaris.
Then slowly the body and brain fall a sleep, yet i stay in awareness and dont fall a sleep, only focussed at my plexus.
After 15 to 20 min iam pure alpha and no beta is there, or as good as none…i enter the small void, the body I dont feel anymore.
Its like zero gravity and having no body at the same time.
Then i go deeper into sleep and the void becomes darker and from the centre of my awareness a little fractal arises, meaning theta waves are experienced and created. The fractal is always orange and its moving, spinning round.
Then the fractal becomes slowly bigger and bigger and i can look in it and see movement and a few moments later i c a dream in it.
Then i focus at the dream I c and i enter it fully lucid.
Then i go lay in my dream with my dreambody on the ground.
Again I lay my right hand on the plexus and the left hand above the belly button.
Crossed legs…how ever once i have entered a dream that is not so important anymore.
Then i act again my head goes sleeping.
And again i make breathing and awareness one.
then the body falls a sleep deeper and i enter soon deep sleep that i call the great black void. And iam fully lucid.
If i want to go fast from my lucid dreams to deeper sleep levels i use selfhypnosis combined with this wild tech and then i go in seconds to deep sleep and also beyond to a near death experience where all changes again.
I had for 10 years an eeg machine and at near death experiences it showed flat on my pc.
The first time i went laying on my bed, 16 years ago i tried this method from my own intuition and i succeeded at it right away. And a few times to master it. No one taught me or no book, its my own. Later i found that yogi in the far east also use the plexus solaris the way i do to reach under even deep sleep.
Not much later (few months) i perfected it by using selfhynosis, combined with the breathing out. Meaning, i programmed myself that breathing out automatically is letting go, totally letting go of. Then the whole process had an even faster cyclus going down into sleep.
So yes selfhypnosis can be a good step forward in practising wild.
What you always need is dedecation and patience.
I did it for ten years 5 days a week from 00:00 to 5 a 6 in the morning.
Passion was always my fuel and still is.
Sometimes at weird inbetween stages i hear music, classic kind of music comes closest i would say, very friendly and warm and light.
But most of the time not. Under deep sleep u can hear music but then all changes…and is indeed like ppl describe a nde…tunnel white light.
When u go very slow u dont have that and u can c another world out there with life.
There are several ways to experience a near death experience. Not just the tunnel. But all are under the deep sleep.
Jeff
Hmmm. Classical music-like, eh? I’ve never heard actual music when going to sleep or changing levels. I hear thunks and metallic clinks sometimes. The closest to music I hear is a sound like the big metal windchimes I used to have hanging out in a tree, but I hear only one to three single chimes.
Dm7, I kiss your little ears! 
I guess your intuition must be very strong, eh? May you always be blessed with music in dreamtime!
Love to you and yours.
Yes something like classical music, but I never know for sure because I never actually heard classic music IRL. 
Hahaha thanks. My ears blushes! 
Yes, my intuition is very strong. 
I enjoy being able to hear in my dreams or in trances because it actually uh comforts me sometimes when I become frustrasted. Sounds weird, but it actually does comfort me when I hear roaring sound or something like that.
Love to you and yours too. 
I don’t mean to write a DJ here, but I had the most insane experience this morning while attempting WBTB. Once I had fallen to sleep I found my safe lying in bed a different direction then when I went to sleep. I then found my body being pulled upwards. I knew I was dreaming and was having an OBE. I felt vibrations and just calmed myself down. I was then thrown against my bedroom wall and held there with my arms out like I was being crucified. I started breathing had and I calmed myself down. Then I started to sink through the floor. I felt like I was being pulled down to hell. Then I found myself back in my room. I knew I was still dreaming and I decided to try meditating, and excercising my chakras. I sat down, closed my eyes and focused. I could get nothing. To get the dream back I focused on rubbing my hands together. Then I decided to go find a DC to tell them to tell me I am dreaming in my dreams, but I couldn’t fly fast enough. I decided to find out what the universe looked like, so I took off into space. I could tell when I exited the atmosphere. I flew and flew until I reached the center of the universe itself; everything broke down into these two shapes. I can’t describe them, but … meh Then I woke up.
The only reason I am mentioning this is because I tried to use lucid dreaming for the mind operation, but it didn’t go too successfully.
I posted this in the Jesus as a lucid dreamer topic, and thought that it was valid in here, because it helps legitimize the effort of learning to operate your brain, in order to make the experience of death more worth while.
This thread has got me really interested in trances like the ones that have been described so I have tried it twice now.
The first time was about 2am when I went to bed. After about five minutes of focussing on my breathing, I started to hear deep pulse sounds, like the sound I associate with when they show ultrasound images of babies in the womb. The sound would alternate from ear to ear and I couldnt really tell if it was a real sound or if it was just my imagintation. Then I drifted into a dream were I was riding my bike slowly towards a group of people and I realised there was a balloon attatched to the middle of the handle bars. As soon as I noticed the balloon, it popped and I felt myself rush from the location of the dream to lieing on my back in bed in a fraction of a second. I woke up with my heart beating hard and a feeling of shock.
The second was this afternoon at 5pm. I tried meditating while listening to binaural beats on my mp3 player. after 10-15 minutes I heard faint music like that played by icecream vans. I thought at first it must be coming from somewhere nextdoor or something because I couldnt beleive my mind was making it and it faded after a couple of seconds from the excitement. After I calmed down again it came back very faintly and untill I was sure it was there and it faded again. I minute later I heard a deep pulsing rumbling like from a jet flying over, and maybe it was a jet, but it had real pulses to it until it got lower and quieter and then decided to get up.
Hearing the music was a pretty unbeleivable experience for me because I couldn’t imagine my mind playing music by itself. Now I am keen to get into a much deeper trance and stay calmer somehow. I havent gotten any vibrations yet.
I like the idea of flying to the centre of the universe and falling asleep in a dream like jeff described.
For more learning how to operate our brain, last night I had 5 LDs and during them I experimented with ways to control your subconcious and other LD techniques.
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When I was looking for a DC to tell them to remind me that I was dreaming, I decided to look for my friend barry. I landed at a house that was definitely not his, but I yelled his name as I ran up to the house. Then when I rang the doorbell he opened the door. I have never been able to force my subcouncious to create a character from nothing before, and I have been developing my theory of this technique for a while. My theory is there are easier ways that truely controling your subcouncious to get results in dreams. For example if you would like a car to appear from no where, start with something smaller, like a light switch that will make a car appear. That way you can leave the work up to your subcouncious.
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There is definitely more than one way to fly. Infact traditional flying gets boring after a while. Last night I became lucid while riding a motor cycle (i don’t ride motor cycles). Since this was a dream I figured I would go OVER the traffic, so I just leaned backwards and imagined the road was leaning backwards too. The motor cycle lifted off the road into the sky. This goes along with matching your subcounciouses expectations. I also found the motor cycle was hard to control in the sky, so I acted like I was riding a jetski in the sky and then I was.
Those two results where both based on my idea of creating expectations for your subcouncious instead of trying to alter or eliminate your expectations. I find this is much more reliable and I don’t lose lucidity like I often do when trying to eliminate my expectations. I think this might work like screaming “Lucidity times 1000.” Let me know if you have any results with this technique.
- I practiced using common ld techniques like rubbing hands and spinning. During the dream I effectively used spinning to chaneg the dream scene(this is a first for me), but to stablize a dream scene I rubbed my hands together. I found the rubbing of the hands to be nice because you can do something else while rubbing your hands. I was rubbing my hands to make sure I wouldn’t loose lucidity.
That second part is a little off topic, but I think that the first part is applicable because this could be used to create changes in yourself or help your subcouncious to revel things about your self.
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HAHAHA that’s a theory? HAHAHAHAHA. cough I’m so sorry, I understand you’ve thought about it for a long time. Well, people already use that (like Pedro)
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Maybe that’s just you, don’t inflict in on all of us
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I think that was your concious expectation (that the motorcycle would fly)
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If you had an expectation that you will wake up from your LD in excitement, that expectation needs to be altered or removed, not added to. Some people do have that expectation, too.
wierd reply… and I don’t think you understand what I am talking about, so try to be less condescending in the future maybe? I also think that often excitement can come of as arrogance in a non-spoken medium, so sorry it it seemed like that. I’m just sharing what works for me so other people might have success.
Further, I wasn’t just talking about doing it, but why that happens when you do it and how that can be applied in other ways. I’m sorry, maybe it isn’t “my theory,” however I am further exploring techniques to alter the world in dreams by altering counciously minor things that results in huge subcouncious alterations. I have found this is important because councious altering just simply isn’t as creative, interesting and unltimately enjoyable. When I allow my subcouncious to build the ultimate result I am usually dumbfounded by the detail and correctness of the results.
Another thing to consider is that in newton’s time every one experienced gravity, but no one understood gravity. The act of doing something is not developing a theory, but instead the act of understanding what and why is. Some fo the reasons may be obvious, but in understanding the subtlties we can more accurately understand the way out minds work. I am sorry that the “learning how to operate your brain” topic is “beyond lucid dreaming” and thus beyond a scope of understanding that is already beyond your ability, but clearly I am having more success with my “theories” than you are with other people’s.
Sorry, I just find it a little funny that everybody keeps treading the same steps over and over in this forum.
Last night I had a false awakening and became lucid because I woke up in my old bedroom. Everything in the room had tracers and and the edges of little things where vibrating. I was on mushrooms! I was lucid so I intensified them and then little balls came out of no where and where vibrating like crazy. Is this LSD visuals without the euphoria and crazy thoughts associate with moth entheogenic substances? I don’t know I’ve never had it… heh.
1st… about DMT… what if you got shot in the head or had it completely eradicated by some large… shrapnel, or something… no tripping for you?
anyway…i’m not sure if this belongs in here or not, it’s kind of a redundant rewording of what i’ve said in the meditation thread, maybe… but
i’ve found two things about meditation, which i’ll try to keep brief…
- falling asleep/hypnagogia… okay, traditionally, I can get to the borderline entrance to the hypnagogic state withint 15 minutes by doing any of the following, depending on what feels best.
I do moderately shallow breathing, whatever feels comfortable… and I listen to my fan while focusing on that… I take the first thing to enter my head, which usually doesn’t make much sense as it’s a mixture of conscious/unconscious thought, and i repeat it until I hear something else that catches my interest, then i repeat that… and this keeps going for quite a while… say… 1 minute… and then I lose track a bit… hit a gap in the chain of thought, and I get a small jolting feeling… I start it up agian… it goes on even longer… I get a bigger jolt… pretty soon I’m on the verge of entering sleep… and the jolts are very chaotic… I’m no longer able to focus very well… I’m seeing some imagery, I can usually voluntarily induce it… but it’s very clipped, fragmented, and behind the blackness, as opposed to 100% seeing it… when I go under into unconsciousness I can sometimes enter it… but I am not in control of myself, my unconscious is.
I will go in/out at least a dozen or more times if I keep doing this… I cannot stay conscious inside it… I cannot stay unconscious inside it long enough to fall asleep, either… so…
at this point I try all sorts of things that never work, give up… and go to sleep (or if it’s during the day… get up…)
Now I know this takes me into REM… at least, partially… becuase sometimes I feel a delayed rush of paralysis, and the only way I can describe this is surgery. When I broke my arm and had pins put in it… when I woke up… I was screaming in horrible pain… it was the worst thing I had ever felt in my entire life… but… it was already over no more than 2-3 seconds passed, and I felt nothing in the arm anymore… it was like delayed sensory input… like the pain signals were indeed sent to the brain… but… the brain wasn’t paying attention until just then, upon waking up… and it got a damn huge sudden rush, processing it all.
That is what the paralysis is like, I feel it, but it lasts a second at the most, and I’m never actually paralyzed.
I find this very interesting… and worry about people that undergo hypnosis for surgery, as … what if a part of them feels it the whole time? Or what if they get a horrible surge when it’s over?
anyway…
onto #2
#2 involves getting to the borderline asleep/awake state… getting deep enough in it to feel like I cannot focus very well anymore… then I get up… take deep breathes, move around a little bit… try and get my mind rejuvinated but still a bit groggy…
then I lie back down, and I take very deep breathes in through the nose and out through the mouth… when I go out… I let everything go… I let unconscious thought chains build up, I let myself drift down… when I breathe in… I just… try and hold on… try and go back into focus… if I ever feel REALLY out of it, like I’m about to lose it… I breathe more forcefully… alter the tempo a bit… fragment my breathes… in in in IN IN… out out out… instead of 2 fluid motions.
The two times I’ve done this… my heart gets really screwed up… today I was worried I was going to have a heart attack… it is NOT my heart chakra, though I feel activity there… I took my pulse and it was in time with the pain I was feeling… it was kind of like heartburn… but the heart was beating so strongly and forcefully… almost painfully… it wasn’t so bad if i focused on another body part… but I was worried I wasn’t going to survive the session… though I didn’t really care too much at that point.
So anyway… I’ll eventually hold onto the “i’m drowsy and about to fall asleep” feeling for a long time… and I feel really weird… .it feels uncomfortable, yet good… i don’t like it at this point… but it’s interesting… sort of a weird buzz… but not really euphoric…
if I focus on descending while outbreathing long enough… I (today) reach what I assume to be a moderate alpha trance… as I could feel heaviness washing over my hands… and a FAKE paralysis, as in, something that is just psychological… but tingly and heavy nonetheless… it’s fairly deep, because on the outbreaths i really lose myself and sometimes get in images… but i never abruptly exit like I do with method one… so I think maybe I can “master” this and succeede at hitting mind awake/body asleep… and working on that and deeper states.
Anyway…
I’ve been trying to meditate for about 4-5 months… i’ve been lding for a year or two… and OBEing/APing since July… I’ve known about the breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth (and it has to be that way, i’ve found, just using one for all your breathing is what makes you sleepy) and imagining falling on the downbreath… i’ve tried it before… but i’ve never liked it or thought it had any legitimate uses…
but in conjunction with my sort of shortcut make yourself fall asleep bit… it seems to work rather well…
I’m optimistic about it… but… I’ve said “i’m so close to doing this” so many times now it isn’t even funny… maybe I’ll be right this time though… hopefully I’ll have to be some day…
Also… if I can meditate into a theta trance on a reuglar basis… I believe I can wil myself into at whenever at the drop of a hat by setting up a key word such as “theta trance…” in concjunction with a simple countdown… you know… like by implanting suggestions into myself while in those states.
I’ve done it with LDs before… but the key words have never worked for more than a few hours after that, and it was during the night.
But with repetetive drilling I think it could definitely work… absolutely.
And if any of you have read all this… I’ve spent a very long time in the borderline sleep state monitoring my chaotic hard to rememebr thoughts, and how they come about… so I think trying these two methods would be benefical to you all.
There are other variations of #1 too… like consciously rambling as fast as you can until your mind gets tired and gaps show up… and doing it with your eyes open if you feel really tired but can’t fall asleep… and other things… but that would make this post that much longer.
So… I yearn to be able to do what the topic starter (sorry i forgot your name) wants to do, minus the drugs and soundfiles… though… .if someone threw some drugs my way I wouldn’t object… innocent wink
and i know these ideas and techniques are by no means exclusive to me… milions of others probably have known them for ages… but i discovered #1 on my own without much help from others… and #2 well… it’s a basic meditation technique that is well known… i’m just sharing my experiences with it.