What are your thoughts on the topic. I know there is already one topic where people have voiced their opinions, but I thought I’d start one directly dealing with the topic.
Here’s a glimpse of my two cents: Many have said that especially since the 9/11 attacks, more terrorism directed against the US is becoming very likely. One consequence was to intervene in Afghanistan. Another is to solve the ‘Saddam-Issue’.
At this point I think you should take a look at terrorism the US is guilty of having comitted. Take for example the 1998 bombing of the al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Sudan, an attack far worse than 9/11, killing people en masse. Shouldn’t this case of US-terrorism alone have led to a UN resolution and sanctions against the US?
And how come the US supported Saddam Hussein through the course of some of his most atrocious crimes? How can you now claim to be fighting a potential danger when obviously without US support and money and under close observation Iraq poses a danger much smaller than during the time the US supported his crimes?
well nice topic ! i can talk about this:) i think !
actually the war must have some benefit to countries that they wana
fall in that (like fall in love).
in afghanestan as i think they wana heal the US peoples feeling after
september 11 and say they punished the guilty very hard.but did u ever
think that how some arab people can plan and act ,in the one of the biggest terrorist acts in the country like us with the best inteligence and
technology? evrybody know that us was supporting TALEBAN , and even if TALEBAN was too rich acting in that plan need something that is out of arabs horizen.
actually i think there must be other planners for that atack with some especial reasons.
and about iraq : u c , who give iraq the technology of that ? do u know why some countris dont wana us hit iraq . the answer is simple, those countries simply knows how much iraq have potential in that part cus they give them the technology so they know iraqs power and beyond this they have economic benefits in iraq that war can omit them and US will win them.
the sweet part is that they cant say frankly hey we know u have this or
that cus we give it to u ! and recently we can hear some news about punishment the guys who gave iraq that technology in that country cus they dont wana countries accused them after the truth comes out.
but as i think i cant understand why US wana do this big mistake! there is
many reasons that shows attacking iraq have many negative effects for US i dont say ingland cus that country allways hide himeself beyond other things and persons!
but why us wana attack iraq?
mas … good reason but so why they gave it to saddam just for war against iran? they dont think that someday this could be dangouros ? sure they know, they know it from the first.
oil … , money , all the guilts come from this !
making happy friends ? isreal will be stoned from that win!
the nagative effects:
first : world come against US ! u c there is everyday protests agaist war.
this is enough i think first one shows everything!
i think after 9/11 just one country got some benefits in all types : isreal.
all the way : i hate war , i dont care they dont wana war cus economic
benefits or peace full particulars , i do recpect that idea .
I call killing to prevent killing simple hipocracy.
And btw…wonder what would it be other way around?If Iraq says America holds dangerous materials,therefore they feel threaten,therefore they will bomb civilians.
Dont have much to say about it anyways,im against any kind of violence.
same thing goes for the mentioned case of Sudan. According to the way the US acted after 9/11, Sudan should probably have bombed the US, too. It is a really crazy world…
The US also say that they want to go to war so that they can destroy Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction. Well, they do not know any specific place where these weapons are, so how do they plan on getting rid of them?
Will they bomb every square inch of Iraq? No, they will just bomb what they want, and i’m sure that there will be mistakes like in the past where the US has killed many civilians.
And with reports of the weapons being held on the sea, chances are even less that the US will get them. So why do they want to go to war? My answer is for oil. I also think that Bush wants to go to war because he wants to carry on from his father and finish the job of not having any US enemies.
And another thing: The US is the only country as far as i know that has used nuclear weapons (attacking Japan), perhaps they are the ones the rest of the country should be going to war with.
My theory is that Bush wants Iraqs oil for the war he believes is coming
with China.
Alex, do you think this is the place to start slamming each others countries? Since most countries have blood on their hands (yours included), I don’t see how advocating war against the USA for something Japan provoked (you are aware that Japan attacked the USA?) is a valid form of criticism.
That said, I will state that I am totally against the war in Iraq, and I just hope we get a chance to vote Bush out of office (2004) before he does irrepairable harm.
I don’t think the war is about oil or Bush trying to finish something his dad couldn’t. If we go to war and win, all the oil we will obtain is going to be used to rebuild Iraq. And the notion that Bush is going to war for his dad is absurd. Their isn’t really any evidence of it.
I don’t think we should go to war just yet, but it seems we are running out of options. Given all of what Hussein has done in the past, is currently doing, and may possibly do, something has to be done. A peaceful solution would be great, but by refusing U.N inspectors full access and other things he is making it very difficult. We should push longer for a more peaceful way out, but if it doesn’t get us anywhere than war it is.
Firehorse:
Firstly i am sorry if i offended anyone, that is not what i intended. I certainly am not advocating war on America! In my previous post it was supposed to be sarcastic to show the hypocrytical nature of Bush. I think that sometimes just writing things down doesn’t convey the true tone of what’s written. I know that many Americans are against the war and i think highly of them and everyone else that’s against the war.
I also don’t think that the US should have used nukes on Japan even though Japan did attack them. It killed many thousands of innocent civilians, this was an unnecessary loss of life. Just like the loss of life that would be if war on Iraq were to happen.
Perhaps sometimes a single person’s beliefs can be projected onto a country that does not believe in them totally.
Paul:
I think their are rumours (i don’t know if they are true or not) that bush made a remark about going to war for his ‘daddy’. I don’t know if anyone can verify this or not though. It is also only when G.W. Bush got into power that all this war talk started happening. I’m aginst his motives and his ideals for this war to happen.
I don’t think that we are running out of options just yet. I am willing to bet that Hussein would not want to attack most nations (namely America) because it knows that they will fight back and utterly destroy them. What would be the point of that.
It’d be cool if the US had a nice, pacifist president. Bush seems to look for trouble. Just before Christmas I was watching TV, and this thing comes on about the possibility of war with Iraq and how Hussein is so dangerous and the the whole jazz and potatoes.
My first thought was “Hey, where have I been, in a cave with my eyes shut? When did this come up?”
It was like it just came out of nowhere, like Bush was really boared and needed to kill some time or something.
And I’m not sure who mentioned it, but someone said he was carrying on the fight for the US to not have any enemies or something. Well, whoever it was, I sure see your point, but Bush would have to be a moron to think thats the answer. That war would obviously leave him with a good few less allies. Even the bulk of the US is againsts this war. AND, the US is a democracy, Bush should listen to the people who elected him, not to the little devils and angels on his shoulders.
I would just like to say that as an american, I absolutely do not think we need to go to war. The only reason that idiot Bush is pushing for war is over oil… that’s as clear as day. If it were really about Saddam not keeping with the UN resolution blablabla… then he would do exactly like Clinton did in 98, and bomb the hell out of them and leave it at that. He would not be so insistant that we rage a full out WAR on Iraq, and try to get the entire world involved.
And I also know that americans are not looked highly upon ANYWHERE but I would just like to point out that we are not all a-holes like your media would have you believe… we all have flaws, and I mean EVERYONE, not just americans, but we cannot be held to what our idiot leader is saying. Besides, more people voted for Gore than for Bush but since we don’t truly elect the president, it doesn’t matter. I’d be willing to bet we wouldnt be trying to go after a world war right now if Gore was president.
Yeah, that’s a good point, I’ve thought about that too. He’s not in much of position to really upset any countries, let alone the superpowers. I don’t know, maybe he thinks Iraq could win a war against the Allies.
I have to disagree about what you said about nuking Japan. Japan was out to conquer the world with Germany and Italy. Their job was to capture islands in the pacific and move towards Australia (I think they reached the coast of Australia by the time the US got there). America pushed them back into Japan, but Japan still refused to stop fighting. So we had to push them back even further, problem was that all there was left to take was Japan itself. So we had two options, invade Japan or nuke it. Invading Japan would’ve resulted in just as many deaths for the japanese as a nucleur attack and it also would’ve resulted in just as many american deaths. So we told them we were prepared to nuke them, Japan still refused to surrender. We nuke Nagasaki, Japan still refuses to surrender. So we nuke Hiroshima and they finally give up. It was their own stubborness that led to so many people dieing.
Thank you for your post. I agree with you that we haven’t run out of options yet (I dont even think war should be a option in this case), and what really scares me is this whole premptive strike idea, where does it stop?
Another thing, with all the cameras, random searches,and Bush saying things like “War For Peace” it’s starting to make George Orwell look a lot like a prophet.
Actually I think my avatar is kind of lame… But NIN are still cool. Actually I had a dream a few nights ago about listening to the new album, which of course hasn’t yet been released in RL. It was really impressive. A mix between ‘the big come down’, pretty hate machine and Alec Empire’s Intelligence&Sacrifice.
On-Topic: Also the US supported Hussein through the course of some of his worst atrocities… I mean, just helping him and giving him weapons/money etc. makes them guilty of terrorism.
And I don’t hate all Americans. As a matter of fact some of my best friends are US-Americans. And at least a couple of them are even more critical of US domestic and foreign policy than I am.
Another thing: Even if Bush goes to war neither for oil nor for his daddy (which isnt my favorite argument, either) there are still so many accounts of politicians going to war to distract from their bad domestic records that it sounds quite likely that Bush is doing the same thing. After all, if their’s only war and heroes and everything on the news, hardly anyone will take their time to investigate what’s going on at home.
As many deaths perhaps but as many civilian deaths? I think that’s a key difference, the US nuked a civilian target, and whether this was the only way to end the war or not, I think the majority of people would have a moral problem with that.
I’m also troubled by the idea that it was the Japanese’s stubbornness that was responsible for them being nuked, I’d have a similar problem with a mugger blaming the victim’s stubbornness in trying to hold onto their wallet for them being shot.
I think the war itself was just, but I think the decision to destroy a civilian target with a weapon of unparalleled power to be highly questionable.
I agree with you about Bush though, I think it’s too simplistic to believe it’s just about oil, or a present for daddy. Still, the timing is strange, why now? And it’s a little two-faced. We think Iraq might have weapons of mass destruction so we plan on invading, we know North Korea has weapons of mass destruction so we’re using diplomacy?
Anything Balck and red labeled NIN kicks ass!(even though im sure there’s better logo’s out in the internet world) there arent many avatars like that. Btw, good point about the new ablum, i dont think i can wait any longer(even though i am) for it, but I think maybe the new sound will be like more instrumental type sound like with regualr instruments, the only reason why i think that, b/c from the last little re-mix ablum “Still” was all filled with harmonic sounds of the piano and some acoustic sounds too.
But the ambient sounds of Industrail was always good to hear to
O-yeah sticking to the Subject, Ahh… war sucks and im staying with my old opinon. Thats it
Well, what is your point? I never claimed that Germany didn’t support Iraq. Of course the US did to a greater extent… There are other examples of terrorism in the name of the US and Germany, too. Just take Turkey… The US is (or was) the nation selling the most weapons to Turkey, with Germany on second place. Those weapons were used against Turkish people (Kurds etc.) so that is another case of the US and Germany being involved in terrorist activities.
When I said I didn’t hate all Americans I meant that i don’t hate ‘all Americans’. Meaning, there are probably none that I could think of that I hate. And even if there were Americans it would because of what they have done, not because of where they were born. Do you think I’m that stupid - stupid enough to hate Americans just because they’re Americans? Do you think I’m a patriot or something ugly like that?
I hope you don’t.
first of all my points were indeed valid,or at least no one has proven me wrong, yet, and second, I said in the above post that
I CAN’T think of any Americans that I hate. ie I don’t hate any Americans.
And, as I already said, if I hated anyone it would NOT be because of where they were born or their religion or their skin color or their money, but because they have done something as an individual that strikes me as wrong.
So that, I guess, was just a misunderstanding.
(I hope you actually read this post… I wouldn’t want you to think that I hate you… )
It is a really crazy world… 
)
But NIN are still cool. Actually I had a dream a few nights ago about listening to the new album, which of course hasn’t yet been released in RL. 
It was really impressive. A mix between ‘the big come down’, pretty hate machine and Alec Empire’s Intelligence&Sacrifice.
…O-well fabi the underachiever… Hate is just a short cut of thinking, especially if your points arent that valid 