Logic part of brain shuts of during REM, then how lucidity?

Quest for Lucidity General Lucidness
1

Not sure i put this thread in the right place but anyhow here’s mu question:

I’m doing a research paper about dreams in my psychology class. And one of my sources are a documentary which went on discovery chanel a while a go. Now to the point: in the documentary they brought up the fact that the part of the brain which handles all logic thinking is shut off during REM sleep. And if I haven’t got it all wrong now it is in REM sleep that lucid dreams occur?

And you couldn’t possibly have lucid dream if you didn’t have any logic thinking could you now? So I assume you “start up” that part when you realize that you are having a dream.

Do anyone have any more facts or reasearch about this? Or maybe someone could just make it a bit more clear to me?

The allmighty google has failed and therefore I seek your help!

2

I personally think that something changes once you turn lucid. I believe i read that brainwaves are slightly different during a LD than normal REM sleep.

3

Logic, as we all know, is rare in dreams. When you’re having LDs, I don’t think there’s any real logic. The brain pieces it all together afterwards. Still, I can only speak for myself. There are those with very rational minds during LD it seems.

4

Logical thinking is very possible in dreams. But in most dreams the logical ability is very low, for me atleast. In lucid dreams, it’s like normal. Prelucid dreams are when we start to think logically and see that things don’t quite add up. Then if we think logically enough we realise we’re dreaming. That’s my experience.

5

Our understanding of the brain is very basic. Documentaries will simplify information for a broader public.

Brain is not mechanical, it cannot ‘shut off’. Parts may become less active as measured by blood flow or electrical activity. If only part of brain ‘thinks’ what does rest of brain do? Reptillian brain may be more reactive, but reptiles still solve problems.

90% of sleepers report dreams during REM sleep. 10% of sleepers report dreams during n-REM sleep.

Lucidity can occur in REM or N-REM.

Experientially there does seem to be a spectrum in dreams from almost no thinking to high level lucidity. Often in pre-lucid dreams I start to ask why? (e.g.Why aren’t I cold when there is snow all around) When I realize answer is I’m dreaming, I am lucid.

6

Thank you. Your reply helped me understand a bit more. But the thing is I need to have the sources for these facts. If you have them I would be very pleased if you could PM them or write them here.

If you yourself have studied this in college or in a universit I would very much like if you could state the college’s/university’s name and what teacher you had. Do this in a pm if you so please.

Thank you for the info.

7

You said that the documentary said that the logical part of our brains shuts down during sleep, to some degree that is true, however that is not the only reason as to the illgocialness if dreams. When you are dreaming you are cut off from all sensory input (smell, taste, touch etc.). Without this information your brain doesn’t have anything to base the content on which is a large part of the reason that dreams are random and unstable.

In additon logic is certainly not shut off in dreams because I have often had regular dreams where i thought and acted rationally and nearly all of my LD’s are veyr rational (in thought, not content).

8

The logical part of my brain seems to be working pretty much same as in waking life during a high level LD. But this varies with the level of lucidity.

9

Okke, I wish I kept better notes.

page 53 Lucid Dreaming 1985 by Stephen LaBerge. (this is a very good book on the history of LD and scientific proof of LD as well as techniques)

sawka.com/spiritwatch/comments.htm

Some other articles on web
carlos-m.net/2005/03/24/drea … rem-sleep/
eprints.assc.caltech.edu/87/01/n … poster.pdf
spiritwatch.ca/acompari.htm

There was a good one on study showing frequency of dreams in NREM state, but can’t find link today. :sad:

10

You say you need the sources…but I believe a blog or forum can be cited. If you need a “credible” source I don’t know where to look because most of my knowledged is stored up over time from books such as Lucid Dreaming and different web articles.

11

Well that’s really the entiregoal of lucid dreaming, isn’t it? To becme fully mentally ware and rational within a dream.

I’m sure you’ve noticed that the level of lucidity is directly related to how logical or “smart” you manage to make yourself in the dream.

12

if the issue is of having conscious awareness, the logical brain is not necessary for such.

our society has a habit of being very highly dominated by the left brain, but consciousness is possible even in delta deep sleep.

the goal of the yogi is to be able to be conscious and aware in all states of mind, and therefore to transcend the very narrow and fickle walls of the logical ego brain [a brain which dissipates very quickly even in the lightest stages of sleep]

so, animals are not very logical, even very intelligent ones like monkeys, but they are conscious right?

if you try to keep thinking as much as you can while falling asleep, you hit a state where you just can’t remember anything you were thinking about at all, and yet, you are still in that state of mind, aware of it.

this is the barrier which the logical brain cannot cross, and hence why for most people sleep and dreams are unconscious experiences. but it is a bridge that YOU can cross if you expand beyond the confines of critical structured thinking.

put another way, the thinking brain is only a ghost of what is going on in deeper subconscious states of processing.

thoughts are delayed reactions, anchors for the ego to hold on to to create a sense of relevance to the moment at hand. actually before a thought comes there is the pure event that sparks it. if you lose your keys you might not think “oh man i lost my keys” for a few moments after it. the thought is a delay and serves to anchor your ego to the activity of key finding.

you don’t need a thought at all though, you can be aware you lost them without thinking a single thing.

this is sort of how dreams are. they are the formation of all sorts of random daily impressions given meaning, it is just that the meaning given cannot make sense rationally often.

if there is a troubling fear emotion and this fear is generalized to british nannies, german shepards, and pie you may have a completely illogical dream about a dog wearing a dress serving you pie which nonetheless makes sense, since the dream is just about your fears.

hope this helps

13

At the point one gets lucid, there will still don’t be any “real” sense in it. Even though one is lucid, it might first be in waking life that one finds out why this and that happened, and so on. There’s a lot of stuf the human don’t think of when lucid, so still there will never be the same logic sense as in IRL

14

I dont agree at all. My logic works just like in waking life during a high level lucid dream and that i can tell from personal experience. I think in the same way, feel the same way and have the same memories. I know what i did last night, i can do math and know where my body lies and so on… At one time i even woke myself up, as i recalled that there was something i had forgot to do in real life.

15

I’m in complete agreement with Tomas here…in any high level LD I am thinking the same as in real life.